New Sig 1911 TacOps VS USP45 Tactical

[JWAS]

I am relatively new here, but I really enjoy shooting and I'm on here a lot. My main obsession is with HK handguns. They just fit my hands and I shoot them all (P7, P2000sk, P30, HK45c, USP45tac) very well compared to other firearms I have shot. That being said, the past week I opted to sell my P30 because, although it was an amazing gun, I never shot it. What I could do with the P30, I could do with the P2000sk. But, I feel that is because I shoot the P2000sk a lot because it is my carry gun.
Anyway, once I sold it (along with my RRA AR15) I obviously had a "few" extra dollars on hand. I went to the gun shop near where I sold the guns and saw the Sig TacOps with treaded barrel, and Kimber TLE/RL IIs. Thinking to myself I still have yet to own a 1911, I thought it was due time to fix that problem. There were some nicer 1911s there as well (Springfield Operator) but the prices on the Sig and Kimber let me keep close to $800 bucks remaining in my pocket, especially since they helped me out on the price of the Sig. After comparing the two I decided I liked some of the features of the Sig over the Kimber, not to mention the threaded barrel. Sadly I have yet to shoot this yet, but I really like the way it feels in my hands (although more narrow than what I am used to). Heavy, but very balanced. Me being an HK guy I really feel the trigger is similar to the P7, which is an amazing SA trigger, and slightly better than my USP 45 Tac in regards to play before the break, but again its 1911 trigger so that is to be expected (again not truly sure how good it is yet because I have not fired it).
Anyway, a problem I have is that my pistols need to have a practical purpose for me to keep them (why I sold the P30 and AR15), my P2000sk & hk45c being my carry guns and the P7 and USP 45Tac being target guns and HD. So once I get used to the Sig 1911 I will be putting it up against the USP45 Tac as my target/(future)suppressor host handgun.
So I guess this thread will start out as this long background and introduction, then slowly reporting on the performance reviews of the gun, and finally how it does against the USP45 Tac... Either way, by the end of this post I hope to share my experiences with the two firearms and help educate you about them, plus there will be a nice (and used... so cheaper) tactical 45 handgun for you guys to fight over once it goes for sale.
The next post will be in the next few days and I hope to talk about the pros and cons of the USP 45 Tactical and initial pros and cons of the Sig TacOps. Hopefully I will have a chance to shoot the 1911 soon, but its not looking like that will happen until the 28th.
I would add my own photos of the guns, but I'm still trying to figure out how (I see how we can add URLs, but not upload the photos directly). Until then, I will add URL photos of each gun so you can get an idea what the Sig 1911 and USP45 tac will look like before they go head to head.

The reigning Champ, weighing in at 2.05lbs with a 12+1 standard mag capacity, the HK USP45 tactical

The Challenger, weighing in at 2.61lbs with an 8 (maybe+1) standard mag capacity, the Sig 1911 Tactical Operations

 

[billyboyr6]

I would give the 1911 a try, you might just like it better then all your other HK's. Their just so smooth to shoot, and look great as well.

To me this comparison is like comparing AR's to AK's. They just really are so different that they really caint be compared. Both have their purpose but half the crowd will choose one and the other half will choose the other.

Personally I like both of your choices ALOT, and would find a reason to justify buying and keeping both.

 

[Fordtough25]

Sig makes a nice 1911, go for it!

 

[JWAS]

Billboyr6- yeah i know they are like the AK-AR, but I guess the "vs" aspect of this thread is dealing with which one works the best "for me" at the range and which one has the most pros I am after for target/suppressor host/HD handgun. The Poll on the other hand, yeah I will get the hardcore fans of each voting for their "brand". But I cant have a VS thread and not have the poll. lol Yeah, it would be awesome to find a reason to keep both...

BTW- the Sig came with 4 Sig 8 rnd mags, I will be testing them out first obviously, but will probably end up getting other mags. Plus, I would like about the same amount (maybe 5) of 10 rnd mags also, any suggestions on the brand (for both 8 & 10 rnd mags), I will buy one and see how it goes, then buy the other 3 or 4 of each.

Next major post/update will hopefully be tonight with the general stats of each gun.

 

[dboz]

I run Chip McCormick 8rd mags in my Springfield Operator and have never had a single problem out of them. I also purchased their 10rd mags, but I can not really comment on their reliability because I only used them once, firing 10 rounds with them and then putting them away. Chip McCormick gets my stamp of approval

In regards to the original post, let us know if you get the Sig 1911 and a suppressor. I bought a threaded barrel for my Operator, and I really enjoy running my can on it. My only problem is that the Operator has standard height sights on it, and I have to look "through the can" to see the target. I think the Sig has raised sights to account for this.

Good luck in your search

 

[JWAS]

Okay, the initial thoughts of the Sig are very good. I am very impressed with the finish, minus the finish on the exposed chamber of the barrel. The aluminum trigger is kinda disappointing (maybe)... it rattles back a forth a little, not sure if that is common with that kind of trigger, but the actual trigger pull does not seem to be effected by the rattle. Anyway, here is the Pros and Cons (initial views) of this pistol…
PROS:
1. Nice 1911 trigger.
2. Full size and weight all steel 1911
3. Full rail section to allow for lights, so it will also be good for HD.
4. Threaded barrel for future suppressor.
5. Serrations on the front and rear of the grip, plus the grips are very well textured, this gun is not going anywhere in your hand.
6. Novak night sights, just so everyone knows they are standard profile sights, not tall sights, but for now that isn’t a problem, so it wont be a CON yet.
7. The TAC OPS also has a magwell, so reloading the mags is very easy.

PROS (in my eyes, maybe not everyone else’s):
1. The trigger has almost a “half cocked” position if you slowly try to decock it. Kinda like a CZ. Once it is in this position the gun is inoperable, until you lock the hammer into its fully cocked position. I like it because I can just decock it without having to worry about the hammer hitting he firing pin.
2. It does not have a full guide rod. Not sure how I feel about this, but I’m more leaning toward the Pro vs the Con
3. It has an External Extractor. I know this ruins the whole “true 1911” experience, but I don’t care as long as it works.
4. The esthetics of the frame is unique and I like how it looks. For those of you that don’t know, the Sig 1911 frame is not rounded like the standard 1911. Of course this is a CON, except for the looks

CONS:
1. The 1911 only has an 8 round standard capacity, vs USP45 Tac has 12 (but fatter grip).
2. Plus, with the factory mags I cannot do 8+1, or have 8 in the mag an nothing in the chamber, because the spring in the mag is so compressed when there are 8 bullets that it wont compress any more, so when you try to push it all the way in the magwell it stops just short because the bullets cant be pushed down any further. I hope this will be fixed with me leaving the mags fully loaded for a while to get the springs used to that. Plus I hope to not have this problem with the other magazines.
3. The grip is narrow… obviously; it’s a single stag mag!!! But, it is something I have to get used to. I have hands that, although not that large, really fit the larger grips of HK and other double stack handguns. So, it won’t be a deal breaker, but still something that will be a CON in the initial overview.
4. The Sig 1911 frame is not rounded like the standard 1911, making finding a holster a little harder. I would love to find both a leather holster (which I have found a few online) and a holster that will also work with the TRL-1 light attached.

Sorry for not doing this yesterday, I had to take care of other stuff. I will try to get the USP45 Tac PROs and CONs list done tomorrow. Again, if you guys have any suggestions for holsters, aftermarket 10 rnd & 8 rnd mags, or anything else let me know. And thanks for the posts and suggestions that have already been given.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

One issue with Sig 1911 pistols: Many standard 1911 holsters won't fit them; even standard holsters for railed 1911s.

That may or may not make a difference; just something to be aware of.

-J-

 

[Magneto]

I would go with the sig. I love their line of 1911s and think that the scorpion is stunning. The tacops is a sweet piece and I have thought about saving for one myself.

 

[MeatyBacchus]

LOL - no contest - HK

 

[MrFive]

Ive owned the USP Tactical, trigger never felt right and the sights were cheap and hard to see. The FNP 45 Tactical would be a better contender, cheaper, NIGHT SIGHTS, trigger feels better and the grip isnt as fat.

But 1911 vs H&K? Ill take the 1911.

 

[01deuce]

Ive owned the USP Tactical, trigger never felt right and the sights were cheap and hard to see. The FNP 45 Tactical would be a better contender, cheaper, NIGHT SIGHTS, trigger feels better and the grip isnt as fat.

But 1911 vs H&K? Ill take the 1911.

That surprises me. The match trigger on mine (which is standard) is fantastic and the stock tall adjustable sights are great IMO. I have small hands and find it very manageable. Built like a tank and a very proven track record!

 

[mshogren]

2. Plus, with the factory mags I cannot do 8+1, or have 8 in the mag an nothing in the chamber, because the spring in the mag is so compressed when there are 8 bullets that it wont compress any more, so when you try to push it all the way in the magwell it stops just short because the bullets cant be pushed down any further. I hope this will be fixed with me leaving the mags fully loaded for a while to get the springs used to that. Plus I hope to not have this problem with the other magazines.

All of my 8-round mags hold 8-rounds fine. granted when you get 8-rounds in them, they are pretty hard to get fully seated in the gun...but they do go in. So there is no issue going 8+1...still not 12, but 1 better than just 8

I have been kicking around getting an HK, but the 1911 bug just will not go away...

Mark

 

[JWAS]

Yeah, the match trigger on the USP is really nice!!!! it has a bit of play, but once you get past that it is smooth and very light. I love that trigger. The FNP45 is huge and fat, even the frame is fatter than the USP!!! people make fun of HK for being bulky, the grips on those FNPs are slightly fatter in my hands. although i did like the one I shoot, it didn't compete with the USP in regards to felt recoil and trigger pull....(FNP is an amazing standard DA/SA trigger though!!! one of the best! Just not a match trigger) Plus my USP has the fully adjustable tall night sights, so the plan black target sights are long gone. Well, while we are on the topic I guess I will talk about the PROS and CONS of the USP45 Tac.
Remember, this gun I have shot over 500rnds through, where the Sig I have not shoot yet, so these PROS and CONS will be more accurate to me in regards to the shooting.
PROS:
1. Built like a tank and crazy reliable, I have not had any FTF or FTE through all of those rnds.
2. Very nice adjustable DA/SA trigger system. The DA is crazy smooth and the SA, like I said before is very nice, after the play it is very light, plus the over travel screw really makes that a great gun with the resets, because you aren't pulling the trigger as far back after the breaking point. Something else to mention about the DA/SA is that the safety/decocker and be placed on safe and you can still actuate the slide and everything still being "safe". Plus when you flip that down to decock the hammer the hammer flies forward so you don't have to decock it like a 1911 and have to hold onto the hammer and slowly bring it forward. Now, yes the hammer does slam forward, but when you push down on the decocker the firing pin block pops up in between the hammer and the firing pin. Obviously I would still aim it in a safe direction when doing this, but I also have never heard of them not working properly either.
3. Fully Adjustable nights sights, granted these are after market sights, but the target sights werent cheap either, just all black. Now, with the night sights it is great, I am able to hit an empty (standard size) fire extinguisher at 50 yards with ease with that gun now that I have tweaked the sights to exactly where I want them to be. Plus I can also hit pop cans at that range also and have it dancing away with each shoot. I love this gun with its accuracy. lol Although this isnt what came with the gun I plan on getting the same kind of package for the 1911 due to my eyes. I'm left eye dominate and right handed, so the sights are never right to me while set in the middle.
4. The barrel is polygonal rifling with makes for a slight increase in velocity by helping trap all the gases behind the bullet until it completely exits. Bad side to this is that if you want the rifling to stay in "good" shape you need to shoot jacketed bullets only.... FYI, glocks have this too, so buy an aftermarket barrel for when you shoot basic lead bullets that are not jacketed. Plus the barrel has an O-ring to help with the barrel lockup/accuracy.
5. 12+1 is a nice package for a 45acp. Minus the FNP45, i cant think of anything that beats that round count for a 45.
6. The finish, HK finish is top of the line!!!!! Awesome awesome awesome, minus a small line where the barrel locks to the fame, the barrel looks brand new!!! The sig barrel is already lost a lot of its finish around the chamber just from all the people racking the slide at the gun shop.
7. The dual recoil springs that HK uses in their recoil reduction is amazing. The recoil is very much reduced compared to other 45s I have shoot, hell it shoots as nice as some 9mms do for me.

CONS:
1. Like others have said, it is pretty wide. Although it didn't take me long to get used to it, I will still obviously have that listed as a CON compared to the 1911, although the narrowness of the 1911 is also a CON. Hell, I had a FN 57 for a while, now talk about an awkward gun the first few times you shoot it... 1911 narrow, but crazy long bullets for a pistol (5.7x28)but again I got used to it. So I guess the wide/narrow grip issue with these guns will be determined by the "palm of the holder".
2. The USP line of firearms were introduced before lights really became popular to attach to guns (you will also notice this on first gen glocks and other guns produced about the same time). HK did however at least make a proprietary rail to add some kind of light, where other companies did nothing. However, these other companies surpassed HK in this regard by making any further models into "next gen models" that had the picatinny rails built into the frame. I did have to purchase an adaptor that makes the light slightly lower than what it would be normally, plus obviously had to pay extra for it.
3. HK mags are generally expensive. I did however just find some "lightly used" ones at a huge distribution store back at my old home town in Ohio that I will look at the next time I am there (if I find that they are nice I will make a thread about them, but they do have a huge selection of stuff at the store and online), but still you either really have to hunt for mags to find them "cheap" or be willing to pay anywhere from 40-60 bucks per 12 rnd mag.

So yeah there are the basic pros and cons of the guns. By the way, thanks for the heads up about the 8 round mags. I still plan on buying a few 10 rnd mags when I go shooting next week. Oh, what company/model adjustable night sights would you guys recommend for the sig 1911??? and do you happen to know if standard 1911 sights will work??? or do I just start looking for ones for the Sig only.

 

[JWAS]

mshogren- If you were to get a HK in 45acp get the HK45c.... not nearly as wide, has the ability to go 8+1 in a shorter grip, plus you can get flat base plates for the mags too. That is my sweat shirt/coat carry gun. Plus they still have the o-ring on the barrel like the USP45 tac.

 

[JWAS]

01deuce- did you add the hybrid lem/match trigger to your 45 tac? if so how is it? or is the safety on the right side?

 

[01deuce]

01deuce- did you add the hybrid lem/match trigger to your 45 tac? if so how is it? or is the safety on the right side?

Very good question. match trigger stock (as you know) and yes I did the LEM conversion. However since this is not one of my carry guns and I'm left handed, it does have the safety on the right side (no de-cock)

So it would be a hybrid LEM/match V6. Just swap out the V1/V2 detent plate for a V5/V6 detent plate and a V2 control lever.

It is a very sweet trigger and since all my other HK's are LEM it is much more natural for me.

 

[JWAS]

HELL YEAH!!!!! a true custom trigger package.... I am thinking of converting my HK45c to lem since its my carry gun and he DA is obviously heavier, would also love to sell my p2000sk for an lem version, but can never find one. lol I have found instructions on how to convert the DA/SA to LEM for USPs, but not HK45c, still the same instructions and no different pieces? or would you recommend wasting money... i mean sending it off to HK and having them do it?

 

[01deuce]

Do it yourself, it's not hard at all. And yes same instructions and same pieces.

 

[TomN]

I left the local gun store today with a brand new SIG TacOps 1911 so you know what my vote is going to be.

 

[netlander10]

I left the local gun store today with a brand new SIG TacOps 1911 so you know what my vote is going to be.

OHHH are you in for a treat! If it is as accurate as my RTSS on hornadys you will be very happy.