NWI 2010 Meet & Shoot End of Year Review.

[jedi]

Well 1 shower later and I have though of something else actually a few other items.

FOOD wise what did you guys like, no like in 2010.

Yes I know perhaps I'm talking to the wrong bunch as you are guys and will probably eat dirt if is was bacon flavored!

In any case here is what we did have in 2010 that I can think of.

chip - lays
chips -doritos
soda - coke, pepsi, same but from mexico
water bottles
rice water 2 versions
apple pie
brownies with nuts and no nuts
beef jerky
hot dogs
red hots
polish
burgers
sourkrout (??sp??)

something ya did not like? Something we should try to add?

What did the few "ms" that have come think? Ms. Woodrom? Ms. GB? Ms carbug??? LadyGhost, Aunitbellum? I'm sure I'm missing a few others. What has stopped the rest of the ms. from attending? What about those who have g-friends? Other family members?

@Andy219
I did not have any issue with my set of targets on the far right but then again I think I put out 9 targets at the start and on each target shot it up in 5 locations (left top, right top, left bottom, right bottom, center) before moving on. But then again I was a bit spoiled since I had the far right lane mostly to myself along with GB while you were stuck over on the far left with the big guns and the PVC stands. he,he,he...

Call COLD next time to change out da targets. Don't worry your Hi-Point won't get stolen. Da crowd that comes don't consider that a real gun.

 

[sparky241]

i like the food arrangement but have a few things i believe i will be bringing like my easy to make taco dip. Im not sure the sauerkraut went over real well though. I think we all need to anti up some money for food and plywood. I think melensdad has been paying for the meat.if you play you should pay. new people need not bring anything but a good attitude.

 

[Andre46996]

Time for my $.02 again...

Lets break it up some.

Guys like me and T-n-S who want to go and kill some paper and get in some real practice while still enjoying the company of fellow INGOers go over to the 100 yd range. Most of my toys are at a minimum 100 yd plus guns.

Lets break it up and maybe have a sign up sheet that says..

100 yd:
Mike
AR15 5.56
LR308 7.62
Mosin Nagant

Byron
LR308 7.62
ETC...



50 yard.
Greg
AR 15 5.56
995 9mm

Sparky
Whatever

25yd
Blah Blah
etc...


Then everybody knows where everyone is and can move from range to range if they want to try something specific.

Have an actual time when we can chow and shoot the poop.

Maybe switch I know I would also bring some toys for 50 and 25 yd ranges.

I'll be at the 100 from 10 to 12. 12 to 1 chow and social hour. 1-3 50. 3-5 25

Just my idea I am sure some will call me a range NAZI but I think we really need some organization. I also believe each range should have a designated INGO RO.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Sounds like a workshop for new shooters.

If you'd like to learn to color, come here.
If you'd like to learn to paper mache, come here.
If you'd like to lean to shoot small groups at small distances, move here.

Intresting approach for new shooters. I don't know how well experienced shooters would take it.

 

[geronimojoe85]

Yes I know perhaps I'm talking to the wrong bunch as you are guys and will probably eat dirt if is was bacon flavored!

Bacon flavored dirt?
Where can one purchase such a thing? I'll take 5lbs.

 

[Woodrow]

I think melensdad has been paying for the meat.if you play you should pay.

That's inappropriate.

 

[PatriotPride]

All I'm saying here, unless you are zeroing, what is the point of shooting a Centerfire rifle at 25 yards?

It's attitudes like this that make me not want to attend a group shoot. If I want to shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line, then I'll shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line. If you don't see the point, well, you don't see the point. I'm not shooting your ammo.

I'm all for safety, but I'm going to have a holstered pistol, and I'm not going to load every firearm into my trunk every time the range is cold.

I can understand why people stopped attending group shoots. They're not my thing anyway, but from what I've seen in this thread, I think I'd have an aneurysm after 15 minutes. Oh well, more space for y'all on the range.

 

[jedi]

I think we all need to anti up some money for food and plywood. I think melensdad has been paying for the meat.if you play you should pay. new people need not bring anything but a good attitude.

2011 will continue like 2010 in terms of $$$ donations for plywood/post. I don't forsee changing that. However just like in 2010 I won't ask for donations. If someone wants to give that is fine. I'll collect the money, post the running pot and how much we have spent on supplies. I carry the reciept of the material as well in case anyone wants to see them but nobody has asked for them yet.

In terms of food again it's on a donation basis but with people bringing stuff. Part of the reason for doing it this way has been so that no one person is stuck having to taking in money for food, buying the food and bring it.

Melensdad has been kind enough to bring the propane, grill and "dogs" (hot dogs, red hots). Their have been others that have brought dogs as well over the past few months as well. Along with some burgers. Hot Dogs are probably the cheapest and easiest way to go. The bugrers were added as some did not like the dogs and melensdad has been kind enough to cook them as well.

Think the biggest expenses (long term) is the propane but again melensdad has been mum on the cost.

For my part I will continue to bring brownies, a bag of chips and some burgers/buns since I enjoy the burger more than the dog. When it gets hotter I do have the 5 gal cooler for lemondade as well which will come.

Have an actual time when we can chow and shoot the poop. Just my idea I am sure some will call me a range NAZI but I think we really need some organization. I also believe each range should have a designated INGO RO.

That sounds like a good idea on having an actual "cook" time. Right now however that would depend on our sole cook (melensdad). He tends to cook about 1.5 hours after he arrives and that is when it really slowed down on the range.

Intresting approach for new shooters. I don't know how well experienced shooters would take it.

We won't know unless we try it.

Bacon flavored dirt?
Where can one purchase such a thing? I'll take 5lbs.

I'm sure this website has it.
They have Bacon Flavored Diet Coke!!!
Bacon Flavored Diet Coke

It's attitudes like this that make me not want to attend a group shoot. If I want to shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line, then I'll shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line. If you don't see the point, well, you don't see the point. I'm not shooting your ammo.

I'm all for safety, but I'm going to have a holstered pistol, and I'm not going to load every firearm into my trunk every time the range is cold.

Again no one is saying you have to put your guns in the truck or you can not have a holstered pistol while on the range. Heck I think everyone at the event is OC/CC something even while shooting something else.

At this last event I did unholster my 1911 and unloaded it on the bench so others could shoot it if they wanted to and also because I wanted to do some shooting cross legged and the IWB 1911 just gets in the way. I did not bother to re-holster until the end. However I saw many sidearms in holsters all day on the range. THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE.

The perceived issue for someone standing at the back of the line (on the grass area) or where the bathrooms are at is that when we are on the 25 yard range we literally have the tables covered with stuff.

Like this...

& this...

& this...

All those guns are unloaded but from afar you just don't know. No one has been asked to unload their guns while at the events or made teh range "COLD" like what NPCC measn by COLD. It's not like that nor coudl we really do that since this is a PUBLIC RANGE. We don't have control over what the person at the next bench does. 90% of the time the entire bay is INGO but eveyr now and then we do have other people there as well.

 

[melensdad]

For whatever it is worth I am NOT going to ask money for food, nor will I accept it. You want to contribute for food, don't bring me money, bring a package of Bratwurst, Polish Sausage, Knockwurst or your favorite grill-able food.

Aldi had buns for 10-cents a package last week. The big packs of hot dogs my wife buys are usually in the $4 a pack range but are often on sale for less. A fuel canister lasts for the whole event and those cost about $2.95 last time I checked So I spend maybe $10 for the entire event, typically less.

Over the past 3 months other people have been bringing hamburgers, sausages, hot dogs, etc and so I have actually been using less of my stuff so there is a greater variety of food choices available for everyone. We had polish sausage, bratwurst, cheese brats, hot dogs, red hots and hamburgers this event and you had your choice of sauerkraut, ketchup, mustard and relish for toppings. White and Whole Wheat buns too. We had REAL SUGAR Pepsi and Coke. We had cans of Coke. Brownies plain and with nuts And potato chips. Someone provided napkins and plates. There may have been more???

I think its turning out to be much more of what we all hoped it would become . . . a "pot luck" sort of event.

Me, I don't shoot much at these events. I fire off a few rounds and then enjoy the cooking, talking, cigar smoking and milling around doing as much muzzle sweeping and bad gun handling behind the line as I can fit into my busy schedule.

 

[451_Detonics]

I wouldn't nominate him for RO--what a hassle for him. My point is that he knows what's up--to a much greater degree that the individuals sounding off here.

I can only assume you are referring to me with the "individuals sounding off here" statement and while I do like melensdad from what limited contact I have had speaking with him I doubt he has the amount of experience I have had running ranges both in social settings as well as competition settings. I may be incorrect of course but I have been involved in running ranges for close to 30 years both in the military as well as civilian settings. I am not only a NRA Range Officer but a Range Safety Officer Instructor. I have run ranges for state and regional level competition for close to 15 years and I normally RO a match a month currently and I serve as a Range Safety Officer several times a month.

I am sorry if I have ruffled your feathers, I am not sure who you are as I don't track names and faces well. You might have been one of the very conscientious shooters that I saw or you might be the person who swept me with the muzzle of the Saiga...I have no idea. I do know I saw virtually no one besides myself standing well back of the line watching the firing line. I saw so many safety violations it was scary tho. There is no way you can pack that many people on that small firing line and be safe, especially when a number of the folks with poor gun handling skills.

I am not suggesting the draconian measures such as

remove the slide, store it in a lock box, and put it in the trunk every time we go down range.

nor am I saying it has to be a cold range, I carry there and assume others do as well, it's not a problem until guns are taken out of holsters and shown off loaded behind the firing line. I didn't see this happening and I hope it didn't happen...my point is I never said I wanted the range to be run cold.

The benches are not for gun storage, the benches are for shooters to use when shooting and as you can see in jediagh's pics there is no way the benches can be used for that purpose, that is why I suggested rifles be racked and handguns bagged when not in use, not to mention the safety aspects of doing so. I tried keeping the far left bench clear and several people did use it as intended until it too was slowly covered with guns.

We should be setting an example for new folks and new shooters and we are at the meets, sadly it is not a good example that is being set. If you honestly think we are doing things properly at the range I suggest you contact Mr Kraft and ask him for his opinion, I think you might be embarrassed at what he has to say about our group. Other non-Ingo members who were at the range at the same time we were probably would have unflattering things to say as well, I know the father and son I spoke to on the 50 thought the INGO group was "a cluster**** going on on that range".

We have the potential to do good things at this event, a chance to garner new members and to introduce new people to the shooting sports. When we are there we are representing INGO and should act as responsible gun owners.

I apologize if I have hurt feelings here, it was not my intent. I want to see this event continue but I also want to see it be done safely.

 

[sparky241]

That's inappropriate.

sorry, i meant to say he has been purchasing the sausage and hamburger for these events. My mind doesnt live in the gutter all the time so please forgive me.

 

[PatriotPride]

No offense taken. We all have different ideas of what is "reasonable" when it comes to safety. I don't mind if someone wants to load mags while I'm downrange, but I do have an issue with touching a firearm.

 

[2cool9031]

It's attitudes like this that make me not want to attend a group shoot. If I want to shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line, then I'll shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line. If you don't see the point, well, you don't see the point. I'm not shooting your ammo.

I'm all for safety, but I'm going to have a holstered pistol, and I'm not going to load every firearm into my trunk every time the range is cold.

I can understand why people stopped attending group shoots. They're not my thing anyway, but from what I've seen in this thread, I think I'd have an aneurysm after 15 minutes. Oh well, more space for y'all on the range.

I agree !!!!!!!!

 

[Wild Deuce]

Wow, this thread is some heavy reading.

I have just one question: Are we all still friends?

 

[melensdad]

It's attitudes like this that make me not want to attend a group shoot. If I want to shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line, then I'll shoot a .223 at the 25 yard-line. If you don't see the point, well, you don't see the point. I'm not shooting your ammo.

I'm all for safety, but I'm going to have a holstered pistol, and I'm not going to load every firearm into my trunk every time the range is cold.

I can understand why people stopped attending group shoots. They're not my thing anyway, but from what I've seen in this thread, I think I'd have an aneurysm after 15 minutes. Oh well, more space for y'all on the range.

Well you seem to be in very good company because there were roughly 15 (maybe a few more) of us that sat in the cigar lounge today and one of the major topics of the day was this thread.

Based on the 5 or 6 NWI INGO shoots that I've been to, I'd say that there has been some very safe and responsible gun handling by 98% of those in attendance and the 2% that may have been less than diligent were newbies who were guests of INGO members. I'm not going to say there have been no mistakes and no safety issues, but honestly I think much of what WOODROW wrote early on is spot on.

Further, for guns that are behind the line, perhaps in an ideal world its best to have the bolt open and visible for all to see, but honestly its not going to happen 100% of the time but I've yet to see a loaded long arm behind the line. Bolt open or closed.

I'd also point out one obvious set of things that seems to elude most people.

• We are at a public range.
• We publicize this event to all who care to attend.
• If some INGO members decide to "take over" the 25 yard range enforce some special set of self imposed safety rules and other INGO members show up and don't agree to those rules then there is no legal, moral or ethical way to impose those rules on people who choose not to abide by them, even if they also follow generally safe gun handling practices.
• Further, we risk alienating a whole bunch of people who have supported these INGO SHOOTS from the onset and as the tone of this thread has shown, many may simply never attend again.
• And honestly if a group of INGO members sets up on the 50 yard range and another sets up on the 25 yard range I can tell you that I will share hot dogs with all of them, regardless of which group they belong to as long as they are INGO members.
• So it seems obvious that we may fracture this whole event into something that is either a very small gathering, or into 2 different groups meeting at the same place at the same time on the same day but one group having fun and the other group following some potentially very rigid rules.

 

[jedi]

Wow, this thread is some heavy reading.

I have just one question: Are we all still friends?

no! I blame joe for all of this!

We are never going to please everyone but this is a good kobaya to get everything we felt for each other, about the event, and what we want to see in 2011. So think of it as a good family meeting in which everyone is gonna hate everyone for a few days but will be at the next family gathering smoking and drinking the beer.

 

[melensdad]

Wow, this thread is some heavy reading.

I have just one question: Are we all still friends?

Hey if I want a friend then I'm just gonna pop a Viagra and go through airport security to get felt up by a TSA agent.

 

[Woodrow]

I can only assume you are referring to me with the "individuals sounding off here"

I suggest you contact Mr Kraft and ask him for his opinion, I think you might be embarrassed at what he has to say about our group...I know the father and son I spoke to on the 50 thought the INGO group was "a cluster**** going on on that range"...I apologize if I have hurt feelings here, it was not my intent. I want to see this event continue but I also want to see it be done safely.

You may assume what you like if you refer to yourself in the plural. I am directing my comments at several individuals and the issues they are raising after the fact. I believe that the father and son to whom you are referring would have had a different opinion had they known that they were free to have a bay and such would have been cleared for them--it was no one's intention to hold the 25 yard line at the exclusion of all others. If Mr. Kraft as the RO had issues and sulked in the corner only talking to you, then I have no confidence in his abilities. It is his job to halt unsafe behavior, not complain about it.

There were too many people at the line, to be sure. If you or others witnessed such safety violations, you should have stopped everything and we should have had a pow-wow about what was transpiring. It sounds like you, with all of your experience, should have known what to do to protect the group as a whole, but all I have seen is complaining on this forum. Me? I did very little shooting, and didn't take out my pistols at all. I enjoy the company.

My deference to melensdad is to his experience carrying guns in the civilian world and to his years of everyday experience. If you felt slighted by my confidence in him, such was not my intention. In no way does my respect for one individual detract from any respect I may have for others.

I am not disagreeing with much of what 451_Detonics is saying, nor am I defending bad behavior. I am saying that I didn't witness the terrible errors he says he saw, and I am bothered by the notion that he allowed such unsafe acts to continue despite his years of experience and myriad reputation points assigned regarding the Meet and Shoot. I have spoken with him in person and found him to be very knowledgeable and agreeable; hell, I've given him rep points, I don't know why these issues weren't raised in a more timely fashion.

 

[geronimojoe85]

no! I blame joe for all of this!

All right, I did it, I'm sorry.

I'll be the passive bottom in the gang-bang of guilt.

 

[Andy219]

All right, I did it, I'm sorry.

I'll be the passive bottom in the gang-bang of guilt.