Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[david890]

Republicans wouldn't have passed that atrocity.

You mean RomneyCare? Because that was the model for the ACA...

 

[jamil]

Republicans wouldn't have passed that atrocity. They've repeatedly offered a far more free market friendly option with increased choice such as being able to buy insurance from out of state.

Yeah, but wasn't the idea of an individual mandate originally a "republican" idea? But the point was hypothetical. If Republicans had passed it, I really suspect that Democrats would be all over the Crony stuff. Well, not so much that they oppose Cronies. They oppose Republican Cronies.

 

[OutdoorDad]

The only way the math ever worked was with a single payer system.

The only way forward is consolidating the functions of state insurance commissioners into a federally administered program.

There isn't any realistic retreat back to an earlier paradigm. The only way out is forward and through.

We can wish it were different. But it isn't.
Unfortunately, our choice is to suck it up and take it. Or, suck it up and take it while complaining.

 

["Username"]

The only way the math ever worked was with a single payer system.

You are correct.

This has been the goal all along.

Only an idiot would not have been able to see that.

Of course, idiots are plentiful.

In terms of meeting it's actual objectives, obamacare is anything but a failure.

 

[pudly]

You mean RomneyCare? Because that was the model for the ACA...

So, Romney likes the idea and signed an overwhelmingly Democrat legislature passed it and that means that it would have passed in Congress? Wow. That's quite a leap.

 

[pudly]

The only way the math ever worked was with a single payer system.

The only way forward is consolidating the functions of state insurance commissioners into a federally administered program.

There isn't any realistic retreat back to an earlier paradigm. The only way out is forward and through.

We can wish it were different. But it isn't.
Unfortunately, our choice is to suck it up and take it. Or, suck it up and take it while complaining.

The only way forward? That Communist/Democrat slogan? How about ripping it out by the roots and letting the free market in? Or is that too radical in America? VA health care... here we come!

 

[jedi]

The only way forward? That Communist/Democrat slogan? How about ripping it out by the roots and letting the free market in? Or is that too radical in America? VA health care... here we come!

Cause reality is once a .gov program starts they do not it.
Very, very, very few .gov programs have gone away.
It is not in the interest of either party to get rid of ocare for now.

 

[bwframe]

The only way out of this morass happens in November. We should all remember that and remind everyone we know.

 

[pudly]

Cause reality is once a .gov program starts they do not it.
Very, very, very few .gov programs have gone away.
It is not in the interest of either party to get rid of ocare for now.

The only way out of this morass happens in November. We should all remember that and remind everyone we know.

Oh, how I'd love to agree with you, but jedi is right on this. Trump is better than Clinton by a mile, but while some things might change for the better, too many will continue in the wrong direction. Generations have now been indoctrinated in socialist ideals that have no basis in history or rationality. The SJW onslaught is a prime example of this and they are the ones who will be driving the country soon enough.

The real answer is that only a socialist-style collapse will stop the government spending. I see nothing on the horizon to turn it around. Prep accordingly. I know you are doing better than most.

 

[jamil]

The only way the math ever worked was with a single payer system.

The only way forward is consolidating the functions of state insurance commissioners into a federally administered program.

There isn't any realistic retreat back to an earlier paradigm. The only way out is forward and through.

We can wish it were different. But it isn't.
Unfortunately, our choice is to suck it up and take it. Or, suck it up and take it while complaining.

I think you're probably right. Government is so intertwined with health insurance and healthcare providers I'm not sure how it could be untangled. But short of a market based system, nothing else is going to stem the costs of healthcare. For crying out loud. Every time I need to consume healthcare I find even more people that get paid.

For example, first time I had a colonoscopy was probably 25 years ago. I called the GI's office on the phone, scheduled the appointment with the receptionist, after it was all said and done I interacted with a total of maybe 4 people, including the GI from start to finish. That's it.

Last time I had it done, I had to make the appointment in person. Not sure why. I interacted with 4 different people JUST TO MAKE THE ****ING APPOINTMENT!! The receptionist was first. She directed me to another person who took my personal information. Then I had to wait to talk to another person who took my insurance information. Then I had to wait in the waiting room until the 4th person called me, and then led me to her very nice corner office with floor to ceiling windows, where we haggled for the appointment date.

So as I'm waiting for her to finish pecking the thing into her computer, I'm looking around her really nice office. Bigger than mine. Did I mention corner office? I'm thinking, WTF? This is the office they give to people who make appointments. And why do so many people need to get paid, just to help me make an appointment to get my ass scoped? Why can't I just call one person on the phone, schedule the appointment, and get it done. I should have asked if they were union.

And for the actual appointment I had to interact with probably 4 or 5 more people. That was harder to keep track of. So total it took 8 or 9 people that I personally interacted with, including the GI, who talked to me for about 10 seconds, prior, and I never saw him again. And who knows how many more people were involved that I didn't personally interact with?

This is why the cost of healthcare is skyrocketing. There's no incentive to be efficient in terms of cost. There is every incentive to pay the most people that can be paid. The waste is obscene. And I don't feel the quality of care was any better than the first one.

 

[bwframe]

Oh, how I'd love to agree with you, but jedi is right on this. Trump is better than Clinton by a mile, but while some things might change for the better, too many will continue in the wrong direction. Generations have now been indoctrinated in socialist ideals that have no basis in history or rationality. The SJW onslaught is a prime example of this and they are the ones who will be driving the country soon enough.

The real answer is that only a socialist-style collapse will stop the government spending. I see nothing on the horizon to turn it around. Prep accordingly. I know you are doing better than most.

One step at a time. Killing Obamacare is only a secondary concern for the November election. The primary concern should be obvious on this Indiana gun owner forum. Of course, the election outcome needs to be the same for both.

Always trying to prep accordingly, thanks.

 

[Ericpwp]

I think you're probably right. Government is so intertwined with health insurance and healthcare providers I'm not sure how it could be untangled. But short of a market based system, nothing else is going to stem the costs of healthcare. For crying out loud. Every time I need to consume healthcare I find even more people that get paid.

For example, first time I had a colonoscopy was probably 25 years ago. I called the GI's office on the phone, scheduled the appointment with the receptionist, after it was all said and done I interacted with a total of maybe 4 people, including the GI from start to finish. That's it.

Last time I had it done, I had to make the appointment in person. Not sure why. I interacted with 4 different people JUST TO MAKE THE ****ING APPOINTMENT!! The receptionist was first. She directed me to another person who took my personal information. Then I had to wait to talk to another person who took my insurance information. Then I had to wait in the waiting room until the 4th person called me, and then led me to her very nice corner office with floor to ceiling windows, where we haggled for the appointment date.

So as I'm waiting for her to finish pecking the thing into her computer, I'm looking around her really nice office. Bigger than mine. Did I mention corner office? I'm thinking, WTF? This is the office they give to people who make appointments. And why do so many people need to get paid, just to help me make an appointment to get my ass scoped? Why can't I just call one person on the phone, schedule the appointment, and get it done. I should have asked if they were union.

And for the actual appointment I had to interact with probably 4 or 5 more people. That was harder to keep track of. So total it took 8 or 9 people that I personally interacted with, including the GI, who talked to me for about 10 seconds, prior, and I never saw him again. And who knows how many more people were involved that I didn't personally interact with?

This is why the cost of healthcare is skyrocketing. There's no incentive to be efficient in terms of cost. There is every incentive to pay the most people that can be paid. The waste is obscene. And I don't feel the quality of care was any better than the first one.

If this was at a hospital, do you know of how many layers of regulation you just passed through?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Census Bureau: 118,395,000 on 'Government Health Insurance' in 2015; 28,966,000 Uninsured for Entire Year

118,000,000 on government insurance, it's going nowhere

 

[david890]

So, Romney likes the idea and signed an overwhelmingly Democrat legislature passed it and that means that it would have passed in Congress? Wow. That's quite a leap.

1) Both parties in MA proposed plans, including Romney himself.
2) A compromise was struck, and the Dem-controlled legislature passed the law.
3) Romney vetoed 8 parts of the law.
4) The Legislature overturned all 8 vetoes.
5) The ACA comes to Congress; it's modeled after RomneyCare (obviously, there were going to be changes).
6) It passed in Congress.

Quite a leap? No, just the facts.

 

[Ericpwp]

6) [STRIKE] It passed in Congress.[/STRIKE] Congress was bribed.
7) Congress was routed in the next election.

 

[jamil]

1) Both parties in MA proposed plans, including Romney himself.
2) A compromise was struck, and the Dem-controlled legislature passed the law.
3) Romney vetoed 8 parts of the law.
4) The Legislature overturned all 8 vetoes.
5) The ACA comes to Congress; it's modeled after RomneyCare (obviously, there were going to be changes).
6) It passed in Congress.

Quite a leap? No, just the facts.

It passed congress only by parliamentary tricks. Look it up. Hint: What did the ACA start as?

 

["Username"]

Fear not...when the republicans get control of congress they will get rid of obamacare.

Oh...wait....

 

[pudly]

It took outright bribery and considerable arm twisting to it passed through an overwhelmingly Democrat congress.

Re: The Cornhusker Kickback, a $10 billion bribe to Senator Sanders get on board, etc, etc, etc.

 

[bwframe]

Fear not...when the republicans get control of congress they will get rid of obamacare.

Oh...wait....

Hello friend,

Just curious what your mission is here on INGO?

Seems odd that on a forum of Indiana gun owners, you don't seem have a single post relating to guns (other than politics.)

 

["Username"]

I like 1911s chambered in 45 as John Browning intended.

I now return to the topic at hand.