One Eye vs. Two Eyes

[rvb]

I have no idea how people can shoot an ironed sighted pistol, with both eyes open. I am right handed and right eye dominant, but I still have to close down my left eye partially. If I don't do this, I see two sets of sights.

then you aren't focusing on the FS, or you'd see two sets of targets and only one set of sights

Seriously, that's the delimiter for me....
a good index lets me not even think about which image of sights to use with a target focus. Over the years I've been able to push that target focus out farther and farther. (occasionally when I'm really dialed in I'll notice my parallax set on the target with visual focus on the FS.). When targets get far or tight and I really start to focus down on the FS, I tend to squint or even close the weak eye, because the two target images gets confusing at speed.

I can't begin to shoot to my best up close with an eye closed. Has nothing to do with periferal vision or anything like that... It's a mental thing... It creates tension and tunnels me onto the FS and I start over aiming (including shifting my focus from target to FS) vs just letting it happen, if not resulting in outright trigger freeze...

But that's just my experience and doesn't mean it has to hold true for everyone

-rvb

 

[Doublehelix]

Thanks everyone. Lots to digest here.

So there has been quite a bit of talk about the "how" of using two-eyes open, now how about some talk on the "why" of using two eyes. What are the benefits?

 

[Slawburger]

It took some adjustment but I now shoot handguns with both eyes open. It was too hard keeping one eye shut for the entire CoF (without tripping over something or running into a wall). If there is a long range (e.g. on a field course) standing shot that requires a better aim then I still sometimes close one eye for the extra edge.

 

[bb37]

Interesting discussion and pertinent to me since I have a cross-dominant eye problem.

I have been agonizing over the purchase of new sights for my Glock 19. Given that the price of "good" night sights are a significant percentage of what I paid for the gun, I don't want to make a mistake. I have seen a few comments online that sights like Ameriglo I-dot or Heinie straight eight are quicker or easier for those of us with cross-dominant eyes to get lined up. Do those of you with cross-dominant eyes think there is anything to this?

Also, I'm pushing 60 and I've been nearsighted since the 4th grade. Presbyopia pushed me into bifocals about 15 years ago. I have seen suggestions from experienced older shooters that getting glasses made with the short distance prescription on the right eye and the long distance prescription on the left eye helps with focus on the front sight while still allowing some vision of the target. This assumes that you shoot right handed. So, in a cross-dominant right-handed shooter situation, would it make sense to get the short distance prescription on the left eye and the long distance prescription on the right eye?

 

[rhino]

Interesting discussion and pertinent to me since I have a cross-dominant eye problem.

I have been agonizing over the purchase of new sights for my Glock 19. Given that the price of "good" night sights are a significant percentage of what I paid for the gun, I don't want to make a mistake. I have seen a few comments online that sights like Ameriglo I-dot or Heinie straight eight are quicker or easier for those of us with cross-dominant eyes to get lined up. Do those of you with cross-dominant eyes think there is anything to this?

Also, I'm pushing 60 and I've been nearsighted since the 4th grade. Presbyopia pushed me into bifocals about 15 years ago. I have seen suggestions from experienced older shooters that getting glasses made with the short distance prescription on the right eye and the long distance prescription on the left eye helps with focus on the front sight while still allowing some vision of the target. This assumes that you shoot right handed. So, in a cross-dominant right-handed shooter situation, would it make sense to get the short distance prescription on the left eye and the long distance prescription on the right eye?

If all of your shooting is recreational and you have zero intent of ever using a firearm for self-defense, then I think it's fine to have your glasses configured any way that helps you. On the other hand, if you might use a gun for more serious situations, will you be wearing those same glasses all the time? I think it's a better idea to adapt to whatever glasses you wear all the time instead.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks everyone. Lots to digest here.

So there has been quite a bit of talk about the "how" of using two-eyes open, now how about some talk on the "why" of using two eyes. What are the benefits?

.

There is a school of thought that under stress your conscious mind will not be able to override your subconscious mind's survival instincts and you will keep both eyes open if you want to or not. As such, you're better off practicing how you'd actually end up shooting. I used to believe this more than I do know. I think it depends on how you've trained, number of hours and reps, etc. Personally, I now find I have to think about it to keep both eyes open. In a high stress situation I closed one eye to use a red dot scope, which is foolish because it's designed to work with both eyes open. I had very little time and reps on a red dot sight vs irons, though, and reverted to the years I'd spent on irons vs the months I'd spent on RDS.

I'll mostly agree with Coach. Under stress and with a front sight focus, or even a target focus, you are not losing much of your field of view...sort of. You are only consciously processing a tiny amount of what your eyes are actually taking in. It's a more complex concept than can easily be hashed out here, but in real broad strokes your brain is really only processing a tiny tiny bit of info your eyes "see". It sort of cheats with a lot more and what you think you are seeing is really your brain filling in the gaps. (Which is why the optical illusions where you stare at one thing for awhile then look elsewhere and see dots that aren't really there or something work, or that you see a seed pod, think its a bird, and briefly "see" bird like features that aren't there until you consciously realize it's a seed pod and all things bird like immediately disappear) This is done because it works and because it's much more efficient.

The sole reason I can really think of is detection of movement to the off side. The survival brain is really keyed in to motion, and while you won't "see" it, your subconscious will tell your conscious that there's something over there that might be a threat, take a look. This is difficult to do, and tunnel vision makes it worse. You really need to practice moving your whole head vs just glancing with your eyes.

Now, I've gotten to the point I can make acceptable hits out to about 15y with both eyes open using decent sights. Black on black, not so much. I'm not as strong a believer in the utility of that as I used to be. I can close my left eye faster than I can pull the trigger. It's no issue to move with both eyes open, close an eye to take shots, reopen the eye to move again, etc. Especially once you've got it ingrained. You don't think how to run any more. You don't have to look at your feet to see where they are placed. You do not have to concentrate on your balance (unlike when you were a small child or really drunk), you just run. That's how I use my vision. I know what I need to see and I just do it.

 

[bwframe]

Interesting discussion and pertinent to me since I have a cross-dominant eye problem.

I have been agonizing over the purchase of new sights for my Glock 19. Given that the price of "good" night sights are a significant percentage of what I paid for the gun, I don't want to make a mistake. I have seen a few comments online that sights like Ameriglo I-dot or Heinie straight eight are quicker or easier for those of us with cross-dominant eyes to get lined up. Do those of you with cross-dominant eyes think there is anything to this?

Also, I'm pushing 60 and I've been nearsighted since the 4th grade. Presbyopia pushed me into bifocals about 15 years ago. I have seen suggestions from experienced older shooters that getting glasses made with the short distance prescription on the right eye and the long distance prescription on the left eye helps with focus on the front sight while still allowing some vision of the target. This assumes that you shoot right handed. So, in a cross-dominant right-handed shooter situation, would it make sense to get the short distance prescription on the left eye and the long distance prescription on the right eye?

If all of your shooting is recreational and you have zero intent of ever using a firearm for self-defense, then I think it's fine to have your glasses configured any way that helps you. On the other hand, if you might use a gun for more serious situations, will you be wearing those same glasses all the time? I think it's a better idea to adapt to whatever glasses you wear all the time instead.

I am pushing 60 and require readers to see my work, phone, computer screen, etc. For years the front sight has looked tremendously better with the readers. I don't wear them to shoot though. Besides crashing into/tripping over everything, I cannot allow my self defense marksmanship to be dependent on putting glasses on.

We put a set of orange Ameriglo Idot Pro's on a buddy's G19. He has cross eye dominance. He is happy with the sights and shoots well. It's the same sight system I run on all of my handguns, (rear sight dots blacked out if they didn't come that way.)

Both eyes open for me.

 

[Grelber]

Thanks everyone. Lots to digest here.

So there has been quite a bit of talk about the "how" of using two-eyes open, now how about some talk on the "why" of using two eyes. What are the benefits?

Keeps r.o.'s from freaking out when you wink at them.

And eliminates an unnecessary action.

 

[rransford]

I've found that it took a little practice and mental focus to accomplish keeping both eyes open for my pistol. For me, my eyes seem to focus for a short time if I am moving a lot with both eyes open. And as always, a good set of sights will for sure help with your eyes to focus on the front sight. I find myself practicing more and more with both eyes open. I am now able to use both eyes open with any of my pistols due to me taking time and focusing my eyes on that front sight. It will feel weird at first, but like most things, it will then feel natural after doing hundreds of reps.

 

[bb37]

On the other hand, if you might use a gun for more serious situations, will you be wearing those same glasses all the time? I think it's a better idea to adapt to whatever glasses you wear all the time instead.

That logic, and my basic cheapskate-ness, has a lot to do with why I haven't run to the optician to get a pair of "shooting" glasses made.

We put a set of orange Ameriglo Idot Pro's on a buddy's G19. He has cross eye dominance. He is happy with the sights and shoots well. It's the same sight system I run on all of my handguns, (rear sight dots blacked out if they didn't come that way.)

Thanks for the data points.

 

[romack991]

Everyone's eyes are different, so the answer is going to vary depending on the person. If you have a strong eye dominance, I believe it makes it easier to shoot with both eyes open. But some have weak or no eye dominance which I believe makes it harder to shoot with both eyes open. If I do the eye test that RVB described, typically as my hands come together and form a triangle, the image I am focusing will become covered by my hands. I'll have two triangles on either side of the now obscured focal point. However, that's not always true. If I do it multiple times over a period of time, I may get a couple that show I'm right eye dominant and a couple that show I'm left eye dominant.

I spent a year working on shooting with my eyes open, both in dry fire and live fire. I put the tape on my glasses, blurring the lens, etc. I got to the point where on a slower cadence (~.4 to .5 splits), I could call shots adequately(with normal glasses). However, as things sped up (.25 splits and under), I simply could not depend on being able to see an adequate sight picture with both eyes open. After a while, I just accepted this as a limitation, and obtaining an adequate sight picture is far more important than shooting with both eyes open.

Now I've trained enough that I subconsciously squint my left eye as my hands come together with the pistol. The eye is still partially open so I really haven't lost any peripheral vision, but it's not ideal. Also, the distance in which I switch from target focused to front sight focused is probably closer than most other shooters. Any time I am not aiming, both eyes are open (movement, reloads, initial part of the draw, etc.) The biggest disadvantage I can tell is snapping to the correct spot on closer targets during fast transitions.

I feel that new shooters should try to shoot with both eyes open. If they can train their eyes to do it with acceptable results, awesome. If not, figure out the most efficient way that works for them and move on.

 

[SSGSAD]

Try as I may the 2 eyes open thing has just never worked for me. Regardless.

AMEN, to that.....

I was taught as a "youngster", to close my left eye, and shoot right handed .....

I guess I am lucky, as I am right handed, and right eye dominate .....

 

[rvb]

i don't understand what eye dominance has to do with sight selection....
-rvb

 

[romack991]

i don't understand what eye dominance has to do with sight selection....
-rvb

Yeah, having sights that pops, like a fiber, may help you see a blurred sight. But it doesn't change based on your eye dominance. Eye dominance only effects which eye you need to align the pistol with.

 

[bwframe]

It's likely a placebo, it's just easier for middle aged eyes to see, whichever eye. It picks up better and faster when not able to be completely focused.

 

[Runt1122]

I spent a couple of years trying to shoot with both eyes open. It did not work very well. I quit try and squint or close one eye. I quit trying for a couple of reasons. I saw and interview with Jerry Mickeuk and he said close one eye if you cannot shoot with two open. Second I start thinking about the normal reasons for keeping both eye open for tactical field of view reasons, and I decided that was Bull****. Proper front sight focus does not allow looking at anything but the front sight. So I can do that with one eye closed and I don't lose very much field of view. So I quit worrying about it and I feel better about it.

Look at the target, bring the gun to the eye, pull your focus back to the front sight and let the shot happen. Very good results can be had in a hurry doing just this. The mind, will naturally take care of the dominant eye thing in regard to pistols. This method simplifies a number of things and allows accuracy and speed.

Coach, I was glad to read your response here. I just participated in the February Newbie match and this was a question I thought about asking you, but did not get a chance to.

On a side note to anyone that has thought about trying the Newbie match at Parabellum, I highly recommend it! Coach does a great job and it was a lot of fun!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh, random thought. I've also found it easier to shoot with both eyes open using a high thumb on my strong hand. I found it out by accident when adjusting my grip to stay away from the slide release lever on classic Sigs. Thumbs forward and I ride the slide release so the slide doesn't lock back on an empty mag. Right thumb high helps block the sight from the left eye and makes it more intuitive for the right eye to focus correctly.

 

[bb37]

i don't understand what eye dominance has to do with sight selection....

It was an opinion that have found expressed elsewhere on the Internet. I'm not saying that it's a valid opinion. Just looking for the experiences of others with a similar cross-eye dominance, though I may have hijacked doublehelix's thread with my question.

 

[dudley0]

Oh, random thought. I've also found it easier to shoot with both eyes open using a high thumb on my strong hand. I found it out by accident when adjusting my grip to stay away from the slide release lever on classic Sigs. Thumbs forward and I ride the slide release so the slide doesn't lock back on an empty mag. Right thumb high helps block the sight from the left eye and makes it more intuitive for the right eye to focus correctly.

Just tried that with my M&P and no good. Thumb is nowhere near blocking... I just see two thumbs and two sets of sights.

I thought I had normal sized hands... maybe not.

Might go grab my P220 out of the safe to see if it is thinner or some such.

I never looked, but maybe you just have monster hands or some such.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just tried that with my M&P and no good. Thumb is nowhere near blocking... I just see two thumbs and two sets of sights.

I thought I had normal sized hands... maybe not.

Might go grab my P220 out of the safe to see if it is thinner or some such.

I never looked, but maybe you just have monster hands or some such.