One Eye vs. Two Eyes

[Doublehelix]

I may have hijacked doublehelix's thread with my question.

No! This is an awesome discussion and it is totally related. Not hijacked at all!

 

[Grelber]

Something I didn't see mentioned, slow fire bullseye shooting really helped me with the transition.
Seemed to help with getting the initial focus, and once I proved to myself that I could not shoot any more accurately with one eye closed I think it helped with the psychology.

 

[Bfish]

This thread is kind of shooting off in all sort of directions...

I am cross eye dominant. I still shoot pistols right handed, but when I learned of how bad it was, I switched to shooting long guns left handed. I can do long guns shot guns and rifles with both eyes open so long as I'm not looking through a magnified optic, at that point it can give me some issues. I even am able to shoot pistol with both eyes open* but my right eye usually gets a good squint going. I did have a small issue as I can't bring the gun up to my left eye by only adjusting through my hands arms or shoulders. I do bring my head over just a touch. However, this was just a training issue and I can bring the sights to my eyes consistently...

In short, I like having both eyes open if possible, it's also the reason I switched to shooting left handed. I found it a lot more natural especially when shooting shotguns to not be closing my other eye. I feel like so long as you aren't fighting a dominance issue or something you should attempt to keep both eyes open. I'm not going to knock anyone who says it doesn't work for them though. Especially if they hit what they shoot at.

 

[rvb]

now how about some talk on the "why" of using two eyes. What are the benefits?

Sorry, forgot to address this...
Being this is the sports forum and not the tactics forum, we can avoid the debate about peripheral vision, situational awareness, etc, etc...

But there are, imo, some minor physiological benefits. These are mostly my experiences/opinions, not necessarily 'fact.' Though some can be found in other writings...

I already discussed the tension squinting creates, making it hard to shoot relaxed. That also adds to eye fatigue, something bullseye guys worry about too, not just run/gun'ers.

Using two eyes allows us to see things more clearly as the brain overlaps the images. So if you want the front sight to be as crisp as possible, that happens with two eyes open. Again, I think that applies to the bulleye crowd, too.

I think there's some other factors in play there, too... the 'aiming' eye is having to focus on the FS while looking through the rear and doesn't have depth perception on its own to help it distinguish where to focus. For me, that limits how fast I can pick up the FS; I get a FS focus faster w/ two eyes.

I've read some other things that could factor in about how the eyes operate, eg they aren't totally independent.... if a closed eye starts to dilate bcause it's in the 'dark,' the open eye may slightly dilate also.

Of course, as I mentioned above, there might be reasons it's still best not to use both eyes... eg on far/tight shots (where I can't get away w/ a target focus), the time I take distinguishing between the two target images makes it worth squinting or closing the weak eye. Even though I 'know' the target image on the right is the correct one, that's hard to think about under time pressure, and hard to even figure out when an array of 4 targets now looks like 8.......

It 'seems' to me, just anecdotally over the years, that folks with a stronger dominance have an easier time shooting both eyes open... like it's easier to just have the other eye be 'along for the ride' and provide some input, while not confusing the sight picture.

Over the last ~3 yrs or so, I've been shooting/practicing a LOT less than I used to, and I feel my dominance in my right eye is not as strong as it used to be. Some of that may be the lack of practice, some may be the added age, but I find myself squinting more in a CoF than I used to....

-rvb

 

[MohawkSlim]

The advantage of keeping both eyes open is you've been using two eyes to align things for 30, 40, 50+ years.

Sure, most of us have squinted or closed one eye when shooting because that's what papaw told us to do. When you're laying down behind a rifle or taking the time to focus on a cross hair during a slow, aimed shot, it makes sense. But when trying to align something in your hand with something that's only a few feet away, it's much easier and quicker to do so with both eyes open. Our brain constantly processes the angle the two eyes intercept images and creates depth perception based on that feedback.

I'm one of those crazy people that uses no rear sight or a sight that's blacked out when I'm shooting pistols close up. I don't want to waste the time of inserting one more thing to align into the process of getting on target quickly. I want to see the target, see my front sight flash between my eye(s) and the target, and then I want to get to dumping as fast as possible.

It's counter-intuitive that having two eyes would speed that up but it actually does because there's an immediate correction on the primary eye. There's a second opinion, if you will. "Right eye is aligned." Brain says, "Hold on a split-second, I want to double check with the left that there's a 24 degree offset like there was the million other times we've lined stuff up."

What's really cool about two eyes is brain might even kick in and say, "Hold up an extra split-second. I see target at 12 yards instead of 7. We need a 16 degree offset instead of 24. Correct immediately. Shoot!"

If you only have one eye doing the aiming you probably won't even notice. But when you go from shooting one target quickly to shooting six or seven targets at various distances you'll immediately catch yourself moving over, closing that eye, shooting, opening, moving over, closing the eye again, shooting, opening..... there's an extra step in that process. Why do an extra step when you've been custom-made by the Creator to shoot multiple targets at varying distances real, real fast?

Note what others have said. There are times you'll have to squint or close that eye. I know very few shooters who shoot the 25 yard target with both eyes open. Can they? Sure. But that triangle (or cone) of accuracy starts to hit diminishing returns at some point. For the vast majority of shooters that's 10-12 yards. It gets closer as you get older and your eyesight starts to go.

**********************************************
Semi-related or maybe even unrelated topic -

Shooting with no sights at all.

There's a distance (0-7 yards?) that most of us can shoot without even using our eyes. You can do the old quick draw, cowboy shooting and still be relatively effective up close. You can also bring the gun up and shoot before your eye has the sight aligned because you see it in your peripheral and one or both eyes makes that triangle with the brain that says, "Yep. Close enough. That'll do. Squeeze 'em off."

Try it out next time you're at the range. Hold it low down by your hip or just clear of your holster. Hold it up toward your sternum. Point at the target. You'll figure out those distances where you can still make good hits and you won't be using your sights (consciously) at all.

Point your gun at the target and shoot. You've been doing this since you were a little kid. Make it official.

 

[gregkl]

This thread is kind of shooting off in all sort of directions...

I am cross eye dominant. I still shoot pistols right handed, but when I learned of how bad it was, I switched to shooting long guns left handed. I can do long guns shot guns and rifles with both eyes open so long as I'm not looking through a magnified optic, at that point it can give me some issues. I even am able to shoot pistol with both eyes open* but my right eye usually gets a good squint going. I did have a small issue as I can't bring the gun up to my left eye by only adjusting through my hands arms or shoulders. I do bring my head over just a touch. However, this was just a training issue and I can bring the sights to my eyes consistently...

In short, I like having both eyes open if possible, it's also the reason I switched to shooting left handed. I found it a lot more natural especially when shooting shotguns to not be closing my other eye. I feel like so long as you aren't fighting a dominance issue or something you should attempt to keep both eyes open. I'm not going to knock anyone who says it doesn't work for them though. Especially if they hit what they shoot at.

That's good that you were able to make the switch. I have tried several times and I just can't make the switch to shooting long guns left handed. I guess at my age I just don't have the dexterity. Maybe a rifle from a bench I could but when I tried to shoot Trap, it was hilarious...and sad...

 

[gregkl]

I think it has been mentioned but maybe not discussed. What about putting a small piece of opaque tape to force the other eye to take over.

You can leave both eyes open, would have your peripheral but you would be sighting with the "correct" eye.

What are the pro's and cons to that?

It worked for me with shotgun. I haven't tried it for pistol/rifle.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Tape is great until you have to run.

 

[gregkl]

Tape is great until you have to run.

Hmm. I'll have to check that out. I have been wearing glasses with "readers" in them. They covered most of the lens. I got a pair for Christmas that just has the reader in the upper portion. I am thinking if I cover the reader portion and leave the majority of the lens clear it might work. I'll have to do some experimenting.

When I first taped my shotgun glasses, I covered the entire lens. Then I started removing sections of it until I got it down to a small piece right where my eye would be when shouldering the shotgun.

I do know the ones with the reader's that I have been wearing are a little bit of a pain. I can run through the course but after I have to switch them out for standard glasses because of the magnification.

Sucks getting older sometimes.

 

[Roadie]

then you aren't focusing on the FS, or you'd see two sets of targets and only one set of sights

<snipped>

-rvb

IF and only IF you have good eyes or equal sight in both eyes. If you are like me and have a very weak left eye, with 2 vastly different prescriptions between my left eye and right eye, then you can focus on the front sight, and still end up seeing double. Or, if you have one eye that is slightly "lazy" this can happen as well.

Hence why I said there is no "one right answer"

 

[Bfish]

That's good that you were able to make the switch. I have tried several times and I just can't make the switch to shooting long guns left handed. I guess at my age I just don't have the dexterity. Maybe a rifle from a bench I could but when I tried to shoot Trap, it was hilarious...and sad...

I hear yah... i had a bit of a learning curve for sure. I spent a bunch of time shooting some clays and things with my shotgun. After that and just simply "playing" with my rifle a bunch it just became as natural as using my right hand. I can still shoot rifles right handed and things which is nice, but I feel much more had home left handed now. I would say it only took a few months of shooting my shotgun, and in all honesty just practicing mounting the gun so I'm on the gun correctly and things over and over and over. Once I mastered the shotgun the rifle just kind of came easy. I'm sure if you really tried you could do it!

 

[Coach]

Tape is great until you have to run.[/QUOTE Running with tape on shooting glasses was never a problem for me.