Open or concealed carrying interaction with LEOS? any body want to add on?

[ATM]

OK, newbie alert...

Is this true? It is illegal to carry a handgun in Indiana? Maybe some links to some threads around here would be great, but I will also try to search. This has never been my understanding from what I have read previously. (I believe you, I just guess that this shocks me a bit.) I have always heard that the law is silent on this count.

If the law was silent on this, you could carry a handgun without being licensed. The license provides an exception to the crime.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/articles/047/chapters/002/

See 35-47-2-24 in particular: you must prove that you meet an exception to the crime of carrying a handgun in Indiana; you are not presumed to have met an exception.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm old an slow so it's CC for me. Surprise is an edge, just like SA, and I'll take every advantage I can.

There's only one Catwoman, and I thought we settled this already.

 

[Dosproduction]

So you can NOT legally carry a handgun unless you have a LTCH. But you could legally carry a long gun or shot gun with out a LTCH? Is this correct? I would assume that carrying any firearm long or short would have been illegal with out a LTCH. Plz educate me further I would like to understand this. Also what if you have no LTCH but are purchasing a handgun can you carry that back to your car or is that illegal as well. And last I assume this all has nothing to do with private property correct? AND WELCOME.

 

[IndyGlockMan]

So you can NOT legally carry a handgun unless you have a LTCH. But you could legally carry a long gun or shot gun with out a LTCH? Is this correct? I would assume that carrying any firearm long or short would have been illegal with out a LTCH. Plz educate me further I would like to understand this. Also what if you have no LTCH but are purchasing a handgun can you carry that back to your car or is that illegal as well. And last I assume this all has nothing to do with private property correct? AND WELCOME.

There's a big legal difference between a "hand gun" and a "long gun".
Indiana has a license to carry a hand gun
There is no license to carry a long gun and there are very few laws about long guns (compared to hand guns) and Yes, you can carry a long gun pretty much anywhere you want with obvious exceptions.
You will draw major attention to yourself (and not in a good way) and likely be asked to leave any establishment you enter, but yeah, you can legally walk down the road with an AR15 on your back - but please don't.

There is no permit needed to own a long gun other than being over 18 and in good standing with the law.

Yes, you can carry a newly purchased hand gun in it's box, unloaded, back to your car and place it in the trunk or an area inside that is not accessible to you and not loaded.
No officer would give you a hard time about that if you are pulled over and are complying with the law, have receipts, etc...
Just because you are on "private property" doesn't change the law of the land unless it's your own home, then you can carry your hand gun around on your own property as much as you want.
Remember, it's not a license to own a hand gun... just to carry one outside of your own property/home/apartment, etc...

hope this helps

 

[BADWOLF]

Ok I'm going to try to answer some of these questions and comments in order of posting so here goes....

 

[BADWOLF]

Welcome to INGO.

Indiana is different than most other states in that it is a crime here to carry a handgun. Many of your summary assumptions are based upon mere carry not being a crime, as it should be.


Yes in Indiana it is a crime to carry a handgun with out a licence. Just as it is also a crime in Indiana to drive a car without a licence. But and here is the big but according to case Law from a U.S. appellate court " Black v US, No. 11‐5084 (2013) The open carrying of of a firearm does not constitute reasonable suspicion for a Terry stop, as being a felon ( aka not carring legally ) is not the default. So by this ruling a LEO must assume that a person carrying a firearm is doing so legaly since carring illegally is not the default.



Indiana codified the License To Carry Handgun (LTCH, or Larry) as an exception to the crime of carrying a handgun. Further, the burden of proving this exception was placed upon the carrier.


That burden of proof is only valid if the individual is being detained, for an other illegal activity. Like waving a gun around in public in a threatening manner.

And as far as our licence being an exception to the crime of carrying a handgun. Please Google " what is the legal difference between a permit and a licence " plenty of good reading...... hotly debated topic of permit vs. Licence



So, we can't rely on just principles here - our laws are not just.

Your summaries would apply well to carrying other firearms (rifles, shotguns, etc.) where not specifically forbidden, but not handguns.

the answers given are not by any means "just principles" they are from the decent issued by each judge so their was no confusion as to why they issued their ruling the way they did.

 

[BADWOLF]

Bad, please understand that by carrying a handgun, one is committing a crime in Indiana. The Larry is only a defense.

As stated in my response to ATM yes carring a handgun in Indiana is illegal with out a licence, just like driving a car is also illegal in Indiana with out a licence. But courts have already ruled that if an LEO sees an individual with a holstered firearm he has to assume he is carring legally absent any other reasonable suspicion that they have committed a crime, are committing a crime, or will commit a crime. Because being a felon ( aka not carring legally ) is not the default.

 

[BADWOLF]

During an encounter with police is not, IMHO, the moment to educate the officer on everything he is doing wrong. The less said, the better. If rights are violated, rather than escalating the situation, be compliant and let your lawyer sort it out.

That is why i included the paragraph titled "Above all else, remember this when dealing with police."

 

[BADWOLF]

Making it out of a situation with as little hassle as possible, or even alive and uninjured has little to do with who it right on the law at the moment the encounter is going on.

Now I will say if a LEO is calm & courteous and not being a total prick then yes I would try to be pleasant & helpful. But if he was being a prick then I would follow the law to the T, then file a civil rights lawsuit and take their house, vehicles, job & savings and put them on the street, without hesitation.

 

[BADWOLF]

BADWOLF, welcome! If you put out a pamphlet on the law, you might put a lot of attorneys out of work. They make a living interpreting the law, putting up smoke screens and dragging things through the legal process. I would sure hate to see one holding a sign at my next exit saying, "Will litigate for food!"

As stated the answers in the pamphlet come from the decent of each judge on their respective case. Judges issue decents on cases so that their is no ambiguity as to why they ruled the way they did and how they came to their decision. Leaving nothing to be interpreted because they have told you why they made their ruling.

 

[BADWOLF]

Meh, I'm not even sure why this is a topic. I have on good authority, the lifetime ltch is going to be abolished.

abolished and repaced with what? Please elaborate....

 

[BADWOLF]

OK, newbie alert...

Is this true? It is illegal to carry a handgun in Indiana? Maybe some links to some threads around here would be great, but I will also try to search. This has never been my understanding from what I have read previously. (I believe you, I just guess that this shocks me a bit.) I have always heard that the law is silent on this count.

Yes it is illegal to carry open or concealed in Indiana with out a licence. Same as for driving a car.

 

[BADWOLF]

If the law was silent on this, you could carry a handgun without being licensed. The license provides an exception to the crime.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/articles/047/chapters/002/

See 35-47-2-24 in particular: you must prove that you meet an exception to the crime of carrying a handgun in Indiana; you are not presumed to have met an exception.

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemptionor license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, orestablishment of exemption Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for theenforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary tonegate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege theabsence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proofis on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of thischapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with aviolation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to theprosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of thischapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrestor proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

IC 35-47-2-24 Refers to information or indictment ( aka detainment or arrest ) then and only then are you required to hand over your licence to carry and prove your exemption. But for a LEO to detain a person in any state in the U.S. they must meet the burden of Terry v. Ohio which is probable cause to believe that the individual has committed a crime, is committing a crime, or will commit a crime. And he can not use the fact that a person is carring a handgun as probable cause as outlined in the cited case law because carring a handgun or firearm illegally is not the default or norm.

 

[BADWOLF]

So you can NOT legally carry a handgun unless you have a LTCH. But you could legally carry a long gun or shot gun with out a LTCH? Is this correct? I would assume that carrying any firearm long or short would have been illegal with out a LTCH. Plz educate me further I would like to understand this. Also what if you have no LTCH but are purchasing a handgun can you carry that back to your car or is that illegal as well. And last I assume this all has nothing to do with private property correct? AND WELCOME.

An LTCH is for handguns as its name implies ( License To Carry Handgun ). Handgun in trunk unloaded and secured is legal without a licence. And correct has nothing to do with private property

 

[BADWOLF]

Sorry for the long winded responses I am a very firm believer in doing due diligence in my research on things. Even to the point of reading the ruling of each case and then the judicial decents as to make no mistakes in the information I'm presenting

 

[Doublehelix]

If the law was silent on this, you could carry a handgun without being licensed. The license provides an exception to the crime.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/articles/047/chapters/002/

See 35-47-2-24 in particular: you must prove that you meet an exception to the crime of carrying a handgun in Indiana; you are not presumed to have met an exception.

Wow. Great link, thanks for that. I am certainly a bit on the shocked side as this is not how I understood it. I appreciate you clearing that up for me. I now have my LTCH, so I should be OK.

 

[jamil]

This is a new subject for INGO. I'm glad to see that we're breaking new ground.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[SteveM4A1]

This is a new subject for INGO. I'm glad to see that we're breaking new ground.

Yup. The attorneys and LEO of INGO lied to me all along. I knew it!

 

[BE Mike]

As stated the answers in the pamphlet come from the decent of each judge on their respective case. Judges issue decents on cases so that their is no ambiguity as to why they ruled the way they did and how they came to their decision. Leaving nothing to be interpreted because they have told you why they made their ruling.

Actually I should have put my response in purple. I fairly recently bought the following book. Unfortunately it is painfully outdated, since there have been some fairly recent changes to the laws.
Indiana Gun Laws | Indiana Firearm Laws | Reference Manual