private pilot training - recommendation?

[flightsimmer]

What kinda price tag for getting a license for airplane or helicopter?

Fixed wing aircraft training is probably cheaper and covers a broader range of aircraft in the private owner/trainer category.

Helicopters on the other hand, after basic training, require training in specific make and model and it can be very expensive unless you join the military to get your training.

It has been pretty much understood that a chopper pilot can transition to fixed wing much easier than a fixed wing pilot can transition to a helicopter.

Do some introductery flights in fixed wing to see if you really want to pursue a private pilots licence but it will cost you.

 

[Basher]

Fixed wing aircraft training is probably cheaper and covers a broader range of aircraft in the private owner/trainer category.

Helicopters on the other hand, after basic training, require training in specific make and model and it can be very expensive unless you join the military to get your training.

It has been pretty much understood that a chopper pilot can transition to fixed wing much easier than a fixed wing pilot can transition to a helicopter.

Do some introductery flights in fixed wing to see if you really want to pursue a private pilots licence but it will cost you.

Actually, helicopters do not require training in specific make/model, with the exception of the Robinson R22 and R44 (though not the case with the R66), unless the insurance carrier of the insured requires it. As a flight instructor, you need 5hrs of PIC time before you can provide instruction in each make/model, but not to operate them. The Robinson models have a Special Federal Aviation Regulation, or “SFAR” due to some unique design characteristics, but outside of that, a helicopter is a helicopter until you get over 12,500lb MGTW and require a type rating.

Most places that rent a helicopter will want you to get checked out in their aircraft before renting to you, and some will even require that you undergo a set number of training hours per their insurance, so renting them is generally much more involved than an airplane though, so that’s true.

And yes, airplanes will cost you much less. When I started my training, an hour in an R22 cost me $285 wet/dual (fueled w/ instructor). When I finished my CFI certificate two years later in 2017, it was up to $325. That same school shows $350/hr on their website currently, and that’s a pretty competitive rate. The national average to get a private certificate is around 65-75hrs, give or take. You do the math, and it ain’t cheap!

But man, nothing beats flying helicopters!

 

[historian]

Holy crap, that’s high!

I get white coat syndrome so I’ve seen readings as high as 150/90 in the office, but that usually drops down to the mid-130s over low- to mid-80s (still a tad high but not alarming in any way) with a second reading.

Get on the meds, get the BP lowered and stabilized, and go try again!

Yeah. Meds probably won't bring them down enough. Glad I did this before I started to learn/spend a ton of money.

Dreams die, but that is life. Just get to move on I guess.

 

[BroodXI]

First question: Do you need to learn how to land?

This needs to be answered first.

can't get lessons from this guy

 

[flightsimmer]

Your best option is to go see Top Gun, it's cheaper and more thrills.

 

[24Carat]

Private Pilot Requirements | FirstFlight

take those hours and multiply by the rate the school charges. I think mine cost around $3500 back in 1994.

$1600.00 +/- in 1974 !

 

[JettaKnight]

Somewhere I have my log book from twenty years ago showing I have 65 hours logged in training... Then my instructor left and I got married; haven't flown since 2000.

 

[JettaKnight]

Holy crap, that’s high!

I get white coat syndrome so I’ve seen readings as high as 150/90 in the office, but that usually drops down to the mid-130s over low- to mid-80s (still a tad high but not alarming in any way) with a second reading.

Get on the meds, get the BP lowered and stabilized, and go try again!

My wife was up there, meds got it under control, then she lost 60 pounds and didn't need meds.

 

[flightsimmer]

If you intend to fly for a hobby you will get real tired of the $100.00 hamburgers pretty quick.
Renting an aircraft, though very expensive is still much cheaper than owning one.
If you don't have a purpose to fly other than a Sunday Drive, you will get bored quickly.

 

[Caleb]

If you intend to fly for a hobby you will get real tired of the $100.00 hamburgers pretty quick.
Renting an aircraft, though very expensive is still much cheaper than owning one.
If you don't have a purpose to fly other than a Sunday Drive, you will get bored quickly.

My purpose for getting a license is to travel faster(maybe cheaper? probably not so much now)

 

[flightsimmer]

My purpose for getting a license is to travel faster(maybe cheaper? probably not so much now)

Not to discourage you, but thunderstorms and other bad weather will ruin your trip all to often.
Been there done that.

 

[Ironhippie]

You don't need to pay a premium to fly a "new" plane; plenty of folks learn to fly in 70s/80s era Cessnas and Pipers although these days late 90s Cessna 172s are "old" LOL.

Even in the newest private aircraft, Pitch is still controlled around the horizontal axis or today they call it the lateral axis, roll is controlled around the longitudinal axis and yaw is controlled around the vertical axis. I learned to fly in a 1949 Piper Clipper at Brownsburg Airport. Was fortunate to have a father who was a Commercial, multi engine, instrument rated flight instructor. The point is you don't need an expensive plane with a 35k glass panel to learn how to fly, hell you can make a 2-minute coordinated turn with a piece of string and a weight hanging from the top of the cockpit.

 

[cbhausen]

I got my ticket in 1994 and promptly let my Third Class Medical lapse shortly thereafter. I wanted to go on Basic Med instead of another Third Class Medical but had to get the Third Class Medical because it had been over ten years since I’d held one. That’s all behind me now and I can go Basic Med this September.

My flight training was with a private instructor who owned his own C172. If you can find one instead of going through a flight school with the associated instructor turnover this is the ideal situation.

And if you’ve got a decent gaming PC don’t scoff at Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. You can learn a lot taking lessons this way (although you can’t log the time). The scenery is truly good enough for VFR pilotage because it’s derived from Bing Maps data. The entire world and all of the airports are in there, a real bargain at about $120 with no subscription fees.

 

[flightsimmer]

I got my ticket in 1994 and promptly let my Third Class Medical lapse shortly thereafter. I wanted to go on Basic Med instead of another Third Class Medical but had to get the Third Class Medical because it had been over ten years since I’d held one. That’s all behind me now and I can go Basic Med this September.

My flight training was with a private instructor who owned his own C172. If you can find one instead of going through a flight school with the associated instructor turnover this is the ideal situation.

And if you’ve got a decent gaming PC don’t scoff at Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. You can learn a lot taking lessons this way (although you can’t log the time). The scenery is truly good enough for VFR pilotage because it’s derived from Bing Maps data. The entire world and all of the airports are in there, a real bargain at about $120 with no subscription fees.

There's a reason that my screen name is Flightsimmer. I am well versed in the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator and
X-Plane and I am partial to X-Plane because I find it to be more realistic in every respect and you can if interested build and fly your own planes.

I got so good at it that I stopped paying the high rental prices and devoted my time to learning and flying X-Plane.
One hour of real flight time will pay for the X-Plane program and of course you will need a computer that can run it.

The scenery and graphics have gotten to be so good that if you have the right equipment you will feel like your really there including talking to Air Traffic Control.
I use it to stay current and up to speed. I even used it to learn and practice IFR
flight rules but of course you cannot log the time.
And the really neat thing about flight simulation is that if you screw up and crash your plane and kill yourself you can click the restart button and get a new plane and get resurrected.
What more could you ask for. LOL.

 

[cbhausen]

There's a reason that my screen name is Flightsimmer. I am well versed in the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator and
X-Plane and I am partial to X-Plane because I find it to be more realistic in every respect and you can if interested build and fly your own planes.

I got so good at it that I stopped paying the high rental prices and devoted my time to learning and flying X-Plane.
One hour of real flight time will pay for the X-Plane program and of course you will need a computer that can run it.

The scenery and graphics have gotten to be so good that if you have the right equipment you will feel like your really there including talking to Air Traffic Control.
I use it to stay current and up to speed. I even used it to learn and practice IFR
flight rules but of course you cannot log the time.
And the really neat thing about flight simulation is that if you screw up and crash your plane and kill yourself you can click the restart button and get a new plane and get resurrected.
What more could you ask for. LOL.

I was running X-Plane 11 until Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 came out. I simply don’t have the time to devote to all the modding that you need to do in X-Plane. Flight Simulator 2020 is so easy to set up and maintain and the scenery is so good I haven’t looked back. As for comparing the flight dynamics of both simulators I couldn’t tell you which one is actually better. The only thing I’ve flown in the real world is a Cessna 150, Cessna 172, and an RV-6A.

 

[historian]

There's a reason that my screen name is Flightsimmer. I am well versed in the use of Microsoft Flight Simulator and
X-Plane and I am partial to X-Plane because I find it to be more realistic in every respect and you can if interested build and fly your own planes.

I got so good at it that I stopped paying the high rental prices and devoted my time to learning and flying X-Plane.
One hour of real flight time will pay for the X-Plane program and of course you will need a computer that can run it.

The scenery and graphics have gotten to be so good that if you have the right equipment you will feel like your really there including talking to Air Traffic Control.
I use it to stay current and up to speed. I even used it to learn and practice IFR
flight rules but of course you cannot log the time.
And the really neat thing about flight simulation is that if you screw up and crash your plane and kill yourself you can click the restart button and get a new plane and get resurrected.
What more could you ask for. LOL.

What's your computer set up like? Seeing as I won't be doing the real thing, I'd like to get a set up for having some fun in winter.

 

[flightsimmer]

What's your computer set up like? Seeing as I won't be doing the real thing, I'd like to get a set up for having some fun in winter.

Go to the X-Plane Web site and watch the video trailers, you will find answers to all of your questions. There is also an X-Plane forum where you can talk with other like minded players.

I built a model of my real homebuilt aircraft and even the hanger that I keep it in, I even installed a model Army Jeep to drive around the airport although I seldom use it anymore.
You can get really lost in the realizium.

 

[Twangbanger]

If you want a Sunday drive, with less cost:

 

[jaymark6655]

I really believe that 70 to 80 hours is either a myth or something flight schools tell you to prep you for milking you for some unnecessary time. My own research shows 58 hours average is more accurate with almost 30% of people able to complete training in under 45 hours. I had 50.8, but the instructor and I forgot to cover 3 hrs of IFR required, I ran into scheduling conflicts (examiner's job and weather) for my check ride, and continued to fly solo while waiting. Break down of everything I found out below:

My own polling on Pilots of America, I had 108 people respond, the average age was 31 and the average number of hours was 68 hours, but the additional information that the respondents supplied was interesting. Twelve of the pilots had logged over 100 hours before their check ride. Three of them had started flying at age 12 to 14 and logged hours, before they could solo with certified flight instructor (CFI) family members. Two were prior Air Force and had logged time there. One was a prior glider pilot with previous time logged and one was a sport pilot that had 84 hours before he started his private pilot lessons. Three students showed the problems that I want people to avoid. One was taking lessons out of Class B airspace, so every training flight the student and instructor would need to clear Class B to reach an area to practice and they had no syllabus, no plan or path forward. The other had 13 different instructors and 100 hours before they soloed. Both of these led to a lot of wasted time doing nothing, but wasting money. Try to stick to one instructor; sometimes two if it cannot be helped. Any more than that and you spend most of your time relearning, because your new instructor does not know what you have or have not covered. A syllabus also helps in this case. The last started at age 31 and had to stop, then started again at age 50. Try to do it all in one shot or your will have to start over. Removing that group drops the average to 58 hours. This average still includes students with a high number of hours. Most of them only flew three times a month or one flight a week, had training gaps due to weather, farming season, or other scheduling problems, switched instructors, changed schools, or started flying before the minimum age to solo or held other certificates for gliders or Light Sport Aircraft (LSA). These are all things to avoid if on a tight budget. Out of those 108 pilots, 28.7% or 31 were able to complete their check ride in 40 to 45 hours and most others were not much over 50. Those pilots flew two to three times a week, soloed at 6 to 12 hours, and did not have one of the pitfalls that the other group suffered.

 

[jaymark6655]

I wanted to split into to two post covering separate issues/topics.

First thing I would do is find airports, drive there and visit the FBOs. Skyvector is a good map tool that will show airports you may not know are there. What I ran into is there are a lot of instruction opportunities that are not going to show up online. For example my local field has at least three instructors with their own aircraft that don't advertise outside of the local FBO and they are a lot cheaper for aircraft cost than the school I attended.

Second ask a lot of questions on your visit. Examples:
1. Do you have a syllabus?
2. What is the instructor rate?
3. What is the aircraft rate?
4. How is that time billed? Is the aircraft rate wet (including fuel), is the time hobbs time or tach time, is the instructor time air only or including a brief and debrief? It seems backwards, but an instructor that doesn't include his ground time might be trying to be nice or doesn't value that time and won't provide with the same level of service by taking the time on the ground to go over how the flight was and what you need to focus on or go over what that day's lesson is going to cover on the ground instead of in the air where you are now paying more because of the aircraft rate.
5. As others have said ask for an intro flight. Figure out how the instructor teaches in the air and on the ground and does it mesh with your style. Find out if you enjoy flying. Find out if you enjoy a particular aircraft or if something like entry and exiting a certain kind ruin everything else.

Don't just look at that cost, but also driving to and from lessons, a further airport might take longer to get to and more gas, but be better with cheaper rates and less flight time to get out to a practice area. Basically I looked at gas for travel to and from airport and total cost of one lesson both flight and ground time, but places I looked into weren't in Indy were flight time to a practice area will add time to the learning process, but no real value in learning the required maneuvers.

Third find out the FAA requirements and look into your third class medical. It would suck to start flying only to discover you could never solo.

Schedule an medical examine early, but after you know you will pass. Nothing worse than waiting to solo because you are waiting on your medical cert.

Figure out the requirements that you must meet before you can solo. That is the only real variable in time, once you solo its completing stuff that has a set time or distance for the requirement, so if you can solo in 10 hours you will likely complete in 40 hours. At the same time, don't stress yourself out if you are struggling with landings and that pushes you a little past the 10 hour mark before you solo. (I had 12.2 hours before I soloed and was thinking I wasn't going to before 15 hours.) Want you want to avoid is going past 15 if possible. One thing to remember is you are not tied to one instructor and flying one lesson with someone else will give you the benefit of having another set of eyes and a different experience that may lead to something clicking and eliminating the hurdle holding you back. (If this seems strange, just know that I set up and flew a lesson in AR after asking the instructor if my dad could ride in the back seat. I already had my private pilot, but wanted to fly with my dad without going through the checkout procedure for their rental and wanted to fly a plane that I wasn't rated for yet and no intention of ever returning. I was up front and honest and the FBO just wanted to make sure the instructor was okay with it before they told me yes.) Other things to know is do they require a written quiz before solo, study for and eliminate this early.

Study on your own, check out books from the library such as Jeppesen's Private Pilot Manual (or buy used). Some places require ground school, but really you can study and learn this material on your own and then bring questions to your instructor when you don't understand something.

Understand that you will have other expenses, but don't run out an buy everything. For the longest time I didn't have a headset until the club one fell apart during a transmission. Then I bought a $100 one that I knew I would like because I was familiar with the features I wanted. If they rent, just look at rental price over entire process (about 30-35 flights). Maybe rent a couple of times to see if you like flying or what you dislike/like about that headset and then purchase. For me I had to have a knee board, almost immediately I ended up with my notepad for writing down tower instructions, weather, other notes and my checklist ended up in the floor during a maneuver and I could bend over between my legs to pick it up.

Its good to get a copy of the FARs and study the appropriate sections and I even put tabs on mine so I could reference in case I was asked questions I didn't know the answers to. Also get a study guide to the written exam and make flash cards.

Don't buy, but find a Pilots Operating Handbook (POH) for the aircraft you are flying. Try to be specific, because a C172B probably won't be useful if you are flying a C172S. Then take photos of the actual aircrafts POH for weight and balance so you can do your own weight and balance work at home. Find manuals for the specific radios, gps, autopilot installed and learn to use it well. If it is one the aircraft and operational, the examiner can test you one it. Use a check list, some pilots and instructors use a flow over a checklist. Learning a flow is good, but always verify after the flow that you didn't forget something by referencing a checklist. You can build your own out of sections of the POH, in mine the emergency procedures is printed on yellow paper with the must performed steps for each emergency in bold and the if you have time stuff in normal print. (Usually knowing the emergency procedures by memory is required to solo, so it is good to have a copy to study, I review it every night before a flight and just before a flight.)

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO SAVE MONEY (besides not getting into guns or flying or boats or cars)!
1. Fly two to three times per week.
2. Chair fly, that is where you sit in a chair and run through a flow or check list and move your hands to move imaginary switches, throttles, mixture knobs, and check imaginary gauges as if you were in the cockpit. Imagine a race car driver sitting on the floor somewhere, steering wheel in had, imagining the track, turning the wheel the appropriate amount for each corner, selecting the right gear, moving non-existent brake and gas pedals, eyes closed actually picturing the entire track in his mind. Its free and you can do it in a five minute break at work, run through a landing: down wind - throttle to maintain 90 knots, roughly 2200 rpm, abeam the touch down point - maintain 90 knots, 10 deg flaps (moving hand to were flap lever would be), rotate trim wheel three times to adjust for nose up pitch from flaps going down (move hand to wheel and make movement motion), - etc. It seems funny, but works extremely well.