Propane shortage

[mom45]

If there is a summer mix for propane, it is news to me. We get our tank filled once a year and use it year round. This has never been a problem regardless of the weather. We burn wood for heat, but have a gas furnace, hot water heater, gas dryer, gas stove, etc.

 

[Lee11b]

mom45, your not burning enough volume to realize a problem with summer mix propane

there were problems with the propane last winter, besides the price gouging / the largest propane refinery in the Midwest was shut down for maintenance in Nov of 2013. Propane from Canada is very reliable, but the propane from central America, can be a little lean for the colder north Indiana climate we experienced last winter

 

[printcraft]

If your thing is gone and you want to ride on, propane.

She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie, propane.


^^^^^^^^^^ best addition to this thread

 

[eric001]

If your thing is gone and you want to ride on, propane.

She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie, propane.


^^^^^^^^^^ best addition to this thread

Printcraft just pwned the propane thread!!!!!

 

[wagyu52]

I don't know. I am very LP ignorant, trying to learn. My Stepdad cautioned me about LP in very cold temps and related a story of a friend who had problems because of very cold weather. I have no first had experience here.

So, you're saying that if my tanks are below grade and due to ground temp are not as cold as surface air temp, I would not see a benefit?

When I refer to security I am referring to two things: protection against theft and protection against vandalism. I don't want anyone stealing my gas and I don't want anyone shooting at my tank.

No benefit, domestic LP systems only require a max 10psi, that is generated at about -40. Keep in mind that tanks and propane are not effected by wind chill and we are not talking about air temp but propane temp, big difference. Tank size is far more important, a 12 oz bottle can creat over 10psi but can't run a house, you need volume. The bigger the tank the more LP it can vaporize, more volume. Most likely they had too small of a tank, or a more common problem of moisture in the LP causing the regulator to freeze and a loss of pressure.

 

[kevinsr98]

If there is a summer mix for propane, it is news to me. We get our tank filled once a year and use it year round. This has never been a problem regardless of the weather. We burn wood for heat, but have a gas furnace, hot water heater, gas dryer, gas stove, etc.

^^this, I heat mainly with wood. I do have a gas furnace supplied by a 500 gallon propane tank. It gets used very little.

also put in a generator that runs on propane. It's only 6500, but is industrial grade and will run the necessities (well pump, refrigerator, freezer and some lights)

i use approximately 1 gallon of propane per hour when using the generator. But with the wood heat I do not have to run it continually during power outages.

Wood heat with propane back up generator has been fairly efficient and affordable. I think your on the right track with your set up. Wish I had a 1000 gallon tank!

 

[ghuns]

Wish I had a 1000 gallon tank!

My dad has been looking to buy a thousand gallon tank for months and can't find one. Well, he could find one, but the prices are outrageous and he's cheap.

 

[mom45]

mom45, your not burning enough volume to realize a problem with summer mix propane

there were problems with the propane last winter, besides the price gouging / the largest propane refinery in the Midwest was shut down for maintenance in Nov of 2013. Propane from Canada is very reliable, but the propane from central America, can be a little lean for the colder north Indiana climate we experienced last winter

Okay...that makes sense to me. I just had never heard of this. Guess I don't discuss propane as much as I should.

If your thing is gone and you want to ride on, propane.

She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie, propane.


^^^^^^^^^^ best addition to this thread

 

[UGaARguy]

besides the price gouging / the largest propane refinery in the Midwest was shut down for maintenance in Nov of 2013.

That's not price gouging. That's demand pull inflation.

problem with summer mix propane

That I didn't know, and researched to verify. Apparently what we commonly refer to as simply "propane" is actually a blended LP gas. And, if I understand correctly, the blend has more butane in summer and less butane in winter. Good to know.

 

[Zoub]

I'm planning on 1,000 gal tank x2. It will be tough to afford, but that's what I'm going for.

Still looking for propane per gallon prices compared to last year.

You dont have to do that if you know your estimated useage. You can prepay for it at the lowest rates and then they come out and fill as needed. Now, it is often a use it or lose it deal so you need good estimates. Our deal expires on 4/1. If we have any unused by then, I will have it put in a 100lb tank for the shop. Based on the numbers this week I would say we won't have any left over after last fill up in March some time. This year I may pay for more and put some in the 100lb tanks as a back up.

If you are truly using more than 1000 gallons in a year it may be worth it but start out with one tank and prepay.

 

[bwframe]

You dont have to do that if you know your estimated useage. You can prepay for it at the lowest rates and then they come out and fill as needed. Now, it is often a use it or lose it deal so you need good estimates. Our deal expires on 4/1. If we have any unused by then, I will have it put in a 100lb tank for the shop. Based on the numbers this week I would say we won't have any left over after last fill up in March some time. This year I may pay for more and put some in the 100lb tanks as a back up.

If you are truly using more than 1000 gallons in a year it may be worth it but start out with one tank and prepay.

Something to keep in mind is that businesses and customers are at the mercy of the market. Sometimes things change beyond all of our control. For years I bought a fill and a refill for my 500gal tank in June/July. One year my small local supplier just stopped doing that. I was forced to pay a much higher middle winter price. I shopped it around and that practice had become the standard in my area.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Coalliance has honored our contract without issue. I'm usually above 40% at any given time. Though we re-up in may, so our price is a bit high based on last years fiasco (I think 2.05/gal). This will be my 3rd re-up come May, so I don't have much experience with them so far, but my guess is the price won't go down. We shall see.

Wth this outfit, If you have 1,000 gal tank & you're not using them, they won't contract with you. We had to step down from a 750 gal tank to a 500 (They wouldn't bring us a 1,000 gal tank because we didn't estimate enough propane use).
Though, they would likely fill your tank without contract, at a premium.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Waiting to hear the second part of Shibumi's jihad against the propane oligopoly in his area.

Also, after all of the sturm und drang about geothermal from last year, no one's mentioned solarthermal. Much less inertia for the pumps to overcome, so much lower current draw on start up.

 

[Zoub]

Something to keep in mind is that businesses and customers are at the mercy of the market. Sometimes things change beyond all of our control. For years I bought a fill and a refill for my 500gal tank in June/July. One year my small local supplier just stopped doing that. I was forced to pay a much higher middle winter price. I shopped it around and that practice had become the standard in my area.

In rural Wisconsin, there are many players to chose from in the propane game. Key is to own the tank so you are free to call who you want. Last year we avoided the price jump but out of curiosity I used refilling my 5 gallon tanks as an excuse to visit various propane dealers in the area. Everyone was keenly aware of prices, customers called around and shopped price and a huge X factor was how much you could even buy. Contract buyers got first preference but were sometimes still limited to 200 gallons max per delivery and you had to be below 50% to even schedule a delivery. If a propane dealer won't do a prepay contract, someone else will.

choke on propane or gun shop bank accounts and you get Congressional action up here. Our congressman Sean Duffy, of professional lumberjack and reality TV fame, is active on both issues. Still, it is better to buy what you need in summer. For us that would mean a 1000 gallon tank full around Labor Day.

 

[Zoub]

Waiting to hear the second part of Shibumi's jihad against the propane oligopoly in his area.

Also, after all of the sturm und drang about geothermal from last year, no one's mentioned solarthermal. Much less inertia for the pumps to overcome, so much lower current draw on start up.

In our area electricity is so expensive it is often a geothermal killer right from the start. When/if we build here I have found an architect I like who specializes in solar gain designs. It's mind blowing to go around even here and see how many homes or cabins are absolutely built in the worst ways possible in terms of solar gain or anything solar related.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

just a friendly bump, as co-alliance renewed our contract this year (every july, summer rate ftw!) at $1.499 per gal. 500 gal tank, about 1k gal usage (technically 1020 gal used last year).
Curious what prices others are seeing

 

[ghitch75]

just a friendly bump, as co-alliance renewed our contract this year (every july, summer rate ftw!) at $1.499 per gal. 500 gal tank, about 1k gal usage (technically 1020 gal used last year).
Curious what prices others are seeing

i just topped off for $.99 a gallon a week ago.......i own my tanks......

 

[mom45]

We got filled last fall and are still at 30%. We won't be ready to fill again until fall and Co-op wants to move the tank closer to the driveway so we can't fill early. Heating with wood sure saves us a ton of money on LP.

 

[wagyu52]

just a friendly bump, as co-alliance renewed our contract this year (every july, summer rate ftw!) at $1.499 per gal. 500 gal tank, about 1k gal usage (technically 1020 gal used last year).
Curious what prices others are seeing

Is that their budget program? If that's a fill in the winter price locked in, it's not bad but they should top your tank off this summer for less, most prices I've heard are around .99-1.20 for a summer fill. I've actually heard a co-alliance price of .87 that's one time fill own your own tank and paying cash.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Is that their budget program? If that's a fill in the winter price locked in, it's not bad but they should top your tank off this summer for less, most prices I've heard are around .99-1.20 for a summer fill. I've actually heard a co-alliance price of .87 that's one time fill own your own tank and paying cash.

1 year locked in price. I've played the game where we take advantage of summer fill pricing, then get bit in winter with a shortage (and tough to get a fill on time). A buddy moved into a new house 2 winter's ago and got socked for near 5$ per gallon while we were paying a locked in price at around $1.70. Consistently refilled (never getting below 30-40%) during that winter.