Question about my church

[lovemachine]

I attend church at St. Malachy Catholic Church. The property is also the location of their school.

I have always just assumed that carry is a no go since their school is on the same ground. Am I correct in assuming this?

The church and school are also separate buildings.

 

[Fargo]

I researched this a few years ago and came to the conclusion that it was probably a prohibited place unless you had the pastor's permission. There was no caselaw directly on point, but there was some for purposes of the meth statute which addressed a kinda similar situation.

I might start by going on your county's GIS website and seeing if they are platted as different parcels of property.

 

[lovemachine]

The problem with asking one of the priests is that they are never there for a long period of time. We are always getting a new priest, they come and go.

 

[chezuki]

We are always getting a new priest, they come and go.

Oh come on!! I refuse to swing at your slow pitch.

 

[bwframe]

I hate to say it because it is controversial, but we need test cases. Churches have a record of being targeted gun free zones.

A seasoned CC'er should be able to escape detection as long is there are not frequent hugs. If one needs their CC'd gun, they REALLY need their gun. Laws matter little when bullets are flying.

All that said, if you get close to one of the revolving priests, possibly get written permission (that you will treat as a lifetime permit?) Maybe schedule a private meeting to take in your stack of training certificates and encourage a position as a stealth church security official? Give a subtle implication that you're not sure that your family will always be willing to attend without following your normal daily personal security routine?

 

[eldirector]

IMHO

Rented and owned "in kind" by the Archdiocese. The church building and school building are even on the same parcel of property, in this case.

Don't worry nothing bad ever happens at a church OR a school.

 

[2A_Tom]

We don't hug a lot, but I have been poked in the side by a couple of guys. I say I've been working out. We have a rule against carrying that was imposed by an insurance company and never voted on by the church, so... The head of security knows me and that I carry, so...

 

[ruger1800]

Oh come on!! I refuse to swing at your slow pitch.

 

[lovemachine]

I hate to say it because it is controversial, but we need test cases. Churches have a record of being targeted gun free zones.

A seasoned CC'er should be able to escape detection as long is there are not frequent hugs. If one needs their CC'd gun, they REALLY need their gun. Laws matter little when bullets are flying.

All that said, if you get close to one of the revolving priests, possibly get written permission (that you will treat as a lifetime permit?) Maybe schedule a private meeting to take in your stack of training certificates and encourage a position as a stealth church security official? Give a subtle implication that you're not sure that your family will always be willing to attend without following your normal daily personal security routine?

But I don't wanna be a test case...

 

[CPT Nervous]

But I don't wanna be a test case...

Someone's got to do it...

 

[Bennettjh]

Such a terrible law. Only thing GFZ's protect is the bad guys. Fortunately, our church doesn't have a school so we're good to go. If we did, Our pastor would give us permission to carry.

It would be a hassle to go through it every time you got a new priest.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The property is also the location of their school.

And you have answered your own question. No.

There was no caselaw directly on point,

What about French? Make an analogy to.

 

[Fargo]

What about French? Make an analogy to.

I believe that French was a cocaine case (where the school was kinda dicta because there was a park too) followed by Baker which was the Meth case I referenced. I don't consider them directly on point since neither of them deal with the handgun statute and courts have been known to construe definitions differently in malum per se crimes than in malum prohibitum (acknowledging of course that the definition is not found in the drug or the gun statute but rather is independent). That said, the current caselaw does indicate that they would probably be prohibited places but there has never been a test case that I am aware of under the handgun statute.

The only way I know of is to get the consent of a person with the proper authority.

 

[bwframe]

But I don't wanna be a test case...

Then just continue to carry only your hand to hand ninja skills as you always have. Or worship from home.

And, or dedicate your life to getting our state laws changed so that it is NOT illegal to carry in schools.

 

[IndyDave1776]

But I don't wanna be a test case...

I searched so hard for a video clip of the 'somebody has to go to prison' line from National Treasure and couldn't find it.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I searched so hard for a video clip of the 'somebody has to go to prison' line from National Treasure and couldn't find it.

It's okay. We get the idea.

 

[HoosierLife]

There's probably 50+ people that carry at our church. We also have a private school. The school is not in session on Sunday's, obviously. I'm there during the week and I have written permission to carry from the pastor as the de facto head of the school.

But we are Baptists. We're the reason separation of church and state exists in this country. We take that seriously. No federal or state law can prohibit us from carrying at our church. Thus saith the First Amendment!

 

[CPT Nervous]

There's probably 50+ people that carry at our church. We also have a private school. The school is not in session on Sunday's, obviously. I'm there during the week and I have written permission to carry from the pastor as the de facto head of the school.

But we are Baptists. We're the reason separation of church and state exists in this country. We take that seriously. No federal or state law can prohibit us from carrying at our church. Thus saith the First Amendment!

The wall of separation between church and state is not only not in the Constitution, it also has absolutely nothing to do with what you just mentioned.

It simply says that there is to be no state religion. How has this become so convoluted?

 

[Gluemanz28]

There is always this option LM

 

[dwh79]

One reason I like St. John's on Georgia street and the cathedral no archdiocese schools on grounds. Look up comments by Greenfield Police about carrying at St. Michaels said that when a guy with a suspected firearm was possibly seen in the vestibule that even if he was carrying he was not breaking any laws. I thought that was odd since St. Michaels has a school on the grounds.