Quick question about white-tail deer hunting.

[Bocephus]

I've heard an outlandish rumor that a whitetail deer can actually be harvested with a 12ga and slugs. But that's just crazy talk.

I'm a muzzleloader hunter. I dont believe we need these (:do2 kind of rifles in the deer woods.

Just my worth.

 

[Benny]

Kind of takes the challenge out of it, huh?

 

[Bocephus]

yep

 

[rhino]

I'm a muzzleloader hunter. I dont believe we need these (:do2 kind of rifles in the deer woods.

Just my worth.

Ignore this if you're being ironic/humorous.

If not, the same comment could be made by bowhunters. What if they didn't want guns at all in the woods?

The concept of "need" is a nonsequitur in this context, as in almost all others related to firearms. What an individual chooses to use as a tool to accomplish a task should be dictated by the nature of the task and their personal preference, not someone else's opinion of what they "need" or don't "need."

 

[bwframe]

The concept of "need" is a nonsequitur in this context, as in almost all others related to firearms. What an individual chooses to use as a tool to accomplish a task should be dictated by the nature of the task and their personal preference, not someone else's opinion of what they "need" or don't "need."

Yep, we don't need;
camouflaged clothing
scents or calls
portable tree stands
optics
jacketed bullets, let alone sabots
...but the choice to use them is up to us.

 

[bigcraig]

Can you please sight the law/regulation that allows that. I am under the impression (and would love to be corrected) that your statement is incorrect. The wording from the DNR seems to be very clear, there are case length minimums and maximums and the bullet itself has size restrictions with nothing under 357 diameter. A 30-30 or similar round would lose out on caliber (being only a .308/.309 diameter bullet) but it would also lose out because the case length is greater than 1.625" long (a 30-30 is 2.039" long).

Much of the wording regarding the cartridge limitations seems to be directed toward RIFLE hunting, and I am not a PISTOL hunter so I am not sure if the same restrictions apply.

There are no regulations as to how large a caliber for pistols, only a minimum. That is why after pistols were allowed there was a huge increase of sales for big wheel guns and about a year later T/C's were making a big hit in Indiana.

The first year that hunting deer with a pistol was legal I took a nice 8pt buck with a S&W 629 Classic. The following year, after doing some research and checking the DNR regs, I chose to use a T/C in .35 Remington and took a few deer with it during the next 3 or 4 years until I quit hunting all together.

 

[bigcraig]

I'm a muzzleloader hunter. I dont believe we need these (:do2 kind of rifles in the deer woods.

Just my worth.

Your last name isn't Zumbo, is it?

 

[Bocephus]

Your last name isn't Zumbo, is it?

No, im not Jim Zumbo. Zumbo would have referred to these guns as "terrorist guns" I would never do that. When the law was passed to allow rifles in Indiana they assumed people would use the lever action "cowboy" stlye rifles. These rifles do produce less recoil and can bring more young people and women to the sport. Like I said before, its just my two cents worth. Im not trying to bannish these guns (SOCOM) I just dont believe they have a place in the deer woods. Are these guns great home defense guns, yes. Are they an asset to the SWAT team, sure. I just dont like them. I guess im just a traditionalist. I love seeing pictures of a grandpa and a grandson looking at an old Winchester or Remington shotgun or rifle. Seeing a 12 year old boy walking through the woods with an AR that just finished playing Mortal Combat is just not something I want to see. This is just my opinion.

 

[melensdad]

. . . When the law was passed to allow rifles in Indiana they assumed people would use the lever action "cowboy" stlye rifles. . . I just dont believe they have a place in the deer woods. . . This is just my opinion.

I'm not going to jump on you for expressing your views but I believe some of them are misinformed.

First, when the DNR first published these things they listed a group of cartridges including the 458 Socom, 50 Action Express and several others that I am not aware of being chambered in ANY brand or model of Lever Action gun. Of course I could be wrong, perhaps someone makes a Lever Gun for some of those cartridges, but I don't know of any. Further, some of the cartridges are actually commonly found in the AR15 platform guns and NOT commonly found in other actions. Consequently I believe that the DNR specifically expected that hunters would bring AR15s into the woods.

As for AR's not having a "place" in the woods, I think that is a fairly common belief so you are not alone. I also remember when people suggested that BOLT ACTION rifles were unsportsmanlike to bring into the woods and when SEMI-AUTO and PUMP SHOTGUNS were considered unsporting for upland bird hunting. Every time technology comes along and improves a gun, there is someone who's mind is stuck in the past.

 

[Bocephus]

Every time technology comes along and improves a gun, there is someone who's mind is stuck in the past.

Guilty.

 

[Paul]

No, im not Jim Zumbo. Zumbo would have referred to these guns as "terrorist guns" I would never do that. When the law was passed to allow rifles in Indiana they assumed people would use the lever action "cowboy" stlye rifles. These rifles do produce less recoil and can bring more young people and women to the sport. Like I said before, its just my two cents worth. Im not trying to bannish these guns (SOCOM) I just dont believe they have a place in the deer woods. Are these guns great home defense guns, yes. Are they an asset to the SWAT team, sure. I just dont like them. I guess im just a traditionalist. I love seeing pictures of a grandpa and a grandson looking at an old Winchester or Remington shotgun or rifle. Seeing a 12 year old boy walking through the woods with an AR that just finished playing Mortal Combat is just not something I want to see. This is just my opinion.

Mortal Combat is a game that doesnt involve guns...

oh and i would rather hunt with an ar15 with the socom because i am more familiar with the platform and love the platform. but im not a hunter, but have been thinking of getting the .458 upper and give it a shot.

 

[Ri22o]

and give it a shot.

Pun intended?

 

[indyjoe]

Mortal Combat is a game that doesnt involve guns...

But is it legal to hunt a deer in Indiana by ripping its spine out with your bare hands? Fatality!

 

[Ri22o]

But is it legal to hunt a deer in Indiana by ripping its spine out with your bare hands? Fatality!

*Toasties*

 

[Bocephus]

Mortal Combat is a game that doesnt involve guns...

I think you know what my point was.

 

[melensdad]

. . . and i would rather hunt with an ar15 with the socom because i am more familiar with the platform and love the platform. . .

I think you bring up an excellent point (I even gave you REP POINTs for it). You are familiar with the AR15. When our great grandfathers went hunting they were probably familiar with bolt action guns that they were trained to handle in WWI. The little SMLE bolt gun in my safe was popular during several wars and can be fired at an astoundingly fast rate by a skilled shooter (but not me). When our great grandfathers went into the woods with those "military" bolt action rifles in the 1920's through 1940's they were using what they had become "familiar" with in the service.

Since the 1940's and '50's the most common military rifles have been semi-auto rifles with the M1 Garand and M14, and to a lesser extent the little 30 Carbines. But semi-autos were making a name for themselves earlier in the form of the Thompson models 1921 and 1928 sub-machine guns. All those gun were followed by the AR and M platform guns many of us have come to love today.

But there were traditional semi-autos that made the transition into "legitimate" sporting arms long ago. The Browning BAR and the Remington 7600 semi-autos have been accepted by hunters for several decades! The difference is they have wood stocks and traditional blued receivers instead of matte black paint and plastic stocks.

Hunting today, with an AR15, is becoming very normal, especially as the AR rifles are adopting different calibers. Olympic Arms makes some AR15s that are capable of long range antelope, mule deer and mountain goat hunting with their line of WSSM chamberings in 243 WSSM and 25 WSSM. Many deer hunters (but not in Indiana) are apparently adopting the AR15 chambered in Russia's famous 7.62x39 chambering. Prairie dog shooters are picking up the AR15 in droves and favoring chamberings like the 204 Ruger, the 223 and the 223 WSSM. Coyote hunters are also grabbing up AR15s in similar calibers.

People need time to adapt, but the fact of the matter is that anyone who has come home from a tour of duty since the Viet Nam war will probably feel very comfortable with the AR15. Only over the past few years have AR15s been adapted for hunters, by hunters. But I never hear of any reports of hunters with AR15's out there blasting up the woods. I think most simply use a appropriate caliber with a 5 round magazine and take their game ethically, just as they would do if they had a different semi-auto.

Just my but I don't see any need for us to beat up Bocephus for his views. He'll come to accept the AR15 with a bit of time and familiarity. Honestly I give him credit for stating his opposition. Hopefully he, and others, will come to see that the "evil black rifle" is not evil, but in fact is a rugged, all weather gun, easily adapted to hunting, and highly accurate and commonly used ethically.

 

[hunter480]

No, im not Jim Zumbo. Zumbo would have referred to these guns as "terrorist guns" I would never do that. When the law was passed to allow rifles in Indiana they assumed people would use the lever action "cowboy" stlye rifles. These rifles do produce less recoil and can bring more young people and women to the sport. Like I said before, its just my two cents worth. Im not trying to bannish these guns (SOCOM) I just dont believe they have a place in the deer woods. Are these guns great home defense guns, yes. Are they an asset to the SWAT team, sure. I just dont like them. I guess im just a traditionalist. I love seeing pictures of a grandpa and a grandson looking at an old Winchester or Remington shotgun or rifle. Seeing a 12 year old boy walking through the woods with an AR that just finished playing Mortal Combat is just not something I want to see. This is just my opinion.

That, "they" assumed that the guns would be lever action is only, "your" opinion. And, "seeing a 12 year old, walking thru the woods with an AR, that
'just finished playing Mortal Combat," is again, YOU, reaching for an assumption, based on NO fact, but only you`re preconceived notions about what weapons are.

YOU are no different than the lefties who would ban a firearm based solely on it`s appearance, calling a semi-auto rifle chambered in .223, an "assualt
' rifle.

Shame on you.

 

[Ri22o]

Thanks for all the insight, and please keep it coming, it has been a lot of help.

 

[Bocephus]

YOU are no different than the lefties who would ban a firearm based solely on it`s appearance

Shame on you.

Go ahead and think that, but if you do you'ra an idiot.

 

[NateIU10]

Go ahead and think that, but if you do you'ra an idiot.

I don't really see him as an "idiot". You think they shouldn't hunt with ARs because that's not what you want to do. Gun-grabbers don't think the 2nd was meant to include any modern firearms. I fail to see a difference. It's about freedom to choose what you want is most comfortable/familiar to you, not saying "this is how it should be, and if you disagree, you're an idiot."