Rejected for confederate tat

[tuoder]

Should the US Marines reject applicants who choose to tattoo themselves with the symbol of an insurrection against the United States Government? I think some scrutiny is appropriate. If that flag means southern heritage to them, then forget about it.

 

[Ryninger]

What I would like to know is... If there were another draft, would they overlook said tattoos then?

 

[redneckmedic]

I didn't realize that PC had replaced freedom of speech in Constitution!

 

[lashicoN]

I didn't realize that PC had replaced freedom of speech in Constitution!

There aren't many people here who think soldiers have any rights.

 

[DocBoCook]

There aren't many people here who think soldiers have any rights.

That's because when it comes to admission to the armed forces, or once you are in. YOU HAVE NO BILL OF RIGHTS.
You have the UCMJ, which is a loose confederation of rules with loopholes that Officers can use if needed for "catchalls". Anybody know art. 134??

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

I don't care what anyone says that's reverse racism. I was expelled from my highscool for wearing a rebel flag. All because the "other"kids got offended. When I came back the next year I didn't quit wearing my flag. A kid in study hall threatend to kill me and pushed me out of my chair. I rocked him one good time. I got kicked out again and he got babied. Its reverse racism not matter how you toss the dice.

Is it reverse antisemitism if you wear a swastika? After all some people see it as a source of pride and some see it as a symbol of oppression. It really is no different than the confederate flag, both are just symbols that mean certain things to different groups and both to most people, right or wrong, mean bad things.

I honestly don't care if someone wears either, but you really kinda have to understand the reaction you are going to get when you willingly wear them outside, especially if you aren't in the south.

 

[radonc73]

I know Article 15 though.

 

[42769vette]

would they be able to boot a black cadet for ablack panther tat? not that the black panther is the same at the confederate tat its just all i can think of

 

[jclark]

I feel it is just more political correctness gone overboard. The Confederate flag may have a different meaning to someone from Mississippi compared to someone from NY City, in the military you learn to get along with all different types of people with different views from around the country.

Winner. Living on the Indiana/Kentucky State line, I see the Confederate flag quite often. Many folks fly it for Southern pride, but I'm sure others fly it for other reasons.

 

[Eddie]

Winner. Living on the Indiana/Kentucky State line, I see the Confederate flag quite often. Many folks fly it for Southern pride, but I'm sure others fly it for other reasons.

We had a local issue in the late nineties where a couple of high school kids were told they couldn't wear shirts with the confederate battle flag on them. They had received the shirts because they had travelled to and participated in a very large living history event that involved civil war reinactors from all over the country. The shirts had the northern and southern flags crossed on the left breast and then crossed on the back with the names of the groups that participated listed below. The ACLU ended up getting involved but it was settled without suit and the kids got to wear their shirts to school.

 

[irishfan]

What I would like to know is... If there were another draft, would they overlook said tattoos then?

You could have a swastika on your forehead in a draft and I am sure they will take you without hesitation.

 

[Snayperskaya]

Should the US Marines reject applicants who choose to tattoo themselves with the symbol of an insurrection against the United States Government? I think some scrutiny is appropriate. If that flag means southern heritage to them, then forget about it.

That is not what it was about at all. It also was NOT about slavery. That is what it has been made in to over the years by people who want to blame society for their problems instead of taking some responsibility. Want to know more? Read a little history, and learn something. You may find that political agenda, and a little bit of ignorance has turned a lot of history in to something it was not.

PS I am not Southern

 

[ihateiraq]

There aren't many people here who think soldiers have any rights.

thats because theres a lot of people that know they dont.

 

[Rob377]

A swastika means happiness and puppies for every child TO ME. So if it causes me to appear to be a neonazi, that's just because everyone else except me is a communist troll sheeple. Too bad for them.

I wouldn't trust a guy in my squad with Black Panther tattoos, even if he claims its only about black pride or whatever the BS excuse is. By the same token, I wouldn't expect that black squadmate to trust some good ol' boy with a Confederate tattoo. You can't have that kinda distrust in a unit. It's toxic.

Symbols have meanings, and when you go so far as to get that symbol indelibly imprinted on your flesh, your taking that meaning on as your own.
Get a swastika tattoo and start talking about all the good things Hitler did, and how it was only about the German state's rights and had nothing to do with the holocaust and bla bla bla. See how far that gets you.

And speaking of history, let's revisit it a bit:
The first state to secede from the Union was South Carolina. They issued their own declaration of why they were doing it. South Carolina, BTW, was the first to fire in its seige of Fort Sumter.


"Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union"

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
...
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.
The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States. (fugitive slaves)
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
...
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.
...
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

The Civil War, in South Carolina's own words was most certainly about slavery. This isn't "communist troll liberal obama lover" propaganda, folks. This is South Carolina's declaration of independence. In their own words, they state quite clearly it's all about slavery, and they make no apologies for it being about slavery. They were pissed off Northerners weren't returning their slaves, and they were pissed off that Lincoln, who was viewed as anti-slavery was elected.

 

[Rob377]

and just to add a little fuel, Here's Mississippi's A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
Gotta love them for coming right out and putting it bluntly and honestly.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Mississippi Causes of Secession

 

[Snayperskaya]

You are not taking in to account that the sovereignty of each state was being challenged by new legislation and the US Government would not hear each states claims without formal opposition to amending the constitution. While at face value it would seem that slavery is the driving force, I assure you it was not. Modern interpretations do not paint you an accurate picture of what was happening during the time period. You have to look at all of the factors leading up to the war, not just the declaration of the act.

I do agree with you about symbols though.

 

[Son of Liberty]

They confederate flag shouldn't be flown, tatted or anything for that matter, IMO, it is your right to do so though. However, they are a defeated nation, and army. I don't believe we make it a custom to fly the flag or anything of our enemies, and thats what they were, enemies.

 

[Son of Liberty]

That is not what it was about at all. It also was NOT about slavery. That is what it has been made in to over the years by people who want to blame society for their problems instead of taking some responsibility. Want to know more? Read a little history, and learn something. You may find that political agenda, and a little bit of ignorance has turned a lot of history in to something it was not.

PS I am not Southern

It was definitely about slavery, because slavery back then meant money. And lots of it. The Union, for the most part, didn't care about the slaves they cared about the money made from the free labor.

I find it funny how folks seem to believe that the systemaitc oppression of a people would not have long lasting effects and consequences. Since you want to learn about history, blacks and minorities as a whole didn't get equal rights, safety and freedom until after the civil rights movements of the sixties, thats only fifty years ago. And all that did was help to force the overt attacks and hatred under the surface

 

[tuoder]

That is not what it was about at all. It also was NOT about slavery. That is what it has been made in to over the years by people who want to blame society for their problems instead of taking some responsibility. Want to know more? Read a little history, and learn something. You may find that political agenda, and a little bit of ignorance has turned a lot of history in to something it was not.

PS I am not Southern

I'm sorry but I've read plenty of history, and one of the primary reasons the civil war happened was slavery. Many of the southern states declared as much when they seceded.

 

[signut49]

Flags

They confederate flag shouldn't be flown, tatted or anything for that matter, IMO, it is your right to do so though. However, they are a defeated nation, and army. I don't believe we make it a custom to fly the flag or anything of our enemies, and thats what they were, enemies.

What about Japanese, German, British, Mexican, Spanish, Italian flags, etc.? They were ALL our enemies and their flags are flown all over the U.S.A. by individuals, businesses, etc. Can you justify this practice? Me thinks you need to rethink your statement. No flag other than the American flag should be flown on U.S. soil. RIGHT??? We are ALL AMERICAN citizens, not any other nationality.