Ron Paul NDAA floor speech January 18 2012

[TopDog]

Gentlemen political discussions always have the potential to be emotionally charged. This is a good thread lets not get it closed because we have gotten carried away by passion.

It seems we are all pretty much on the same page except for the apparent dereliction of duty by Ron Paul's absence from a vote.

Its been hashed and rehashed, he was wrong for missing the vote. He did try to make it right. The man is only human and given the circumstances I think he is doing the best thing both for his current duties and obligations to the campaign.

 

[fireblade]

Gentlemen political discussions always have the potential to be emotionally charged. This is a good thread lets not get it closed because we have gotten carried away by passion.

It seems we are all pretty much on the same page except for the apparent dereliction of duty by Ron Paul's absence from a vote.

Its been hashed and rehashed, he was wrong for missing the vote. He did try to make it right. The man is only human and given the circumstances I think he is doing the best thing both for his current duties and obligations to the campaign.

now thats a comment i can 100% agree with.....

 

[CulpeperMM]

really........funny 1 hour ago .......i was talking with his camp...............

i can support a political body and the same time question it decisions or policys ..........

i hope you did contribute money to Dr. Paul. It would be great if you have contributed as much as i have. Let's assume you did. fan-****ing-tastic.

Here is what pisses me off. (not that anyone cares) A few people on this board get their panties wet anytime they think they can say something that will harm Dr. Paul, without mentioning who they like or why they like them. Never committing to any principles and stances, and definitely never committing to a candidate.

Others of us have committed (in some cases 4 or 5 years) to supporting Dr. Paul, and have been rather open about our support for him and the rational for our support...
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which goes something like this...

Less Government - Spending (immediately balance the budget)
Less Government - Intrusion (End the DHS, TSA, "War on Drugs")
Less Government - Regulation (End the EPA, DOE)
Less Government - Taxation (End the IRS)
Less Government - Military occupations of foreign lands which cost American blood and treasure.

Respect and Protect Personal Liberty- He has a 30+_ year history of voting to Defend our Bill of Rights. Everyone that has bothered to look knows that.

More Personal Responsibility - No more Bailouts
More Personal Responsibility - No more Handouts

Sound Money - End the Fed. (Restore a metallic backing to our money.)

Protect the Sovereignty of the United States and the several States. - Get US out of U.N. and respect the U.S. Constitution (including amendment #10)
~~~~~~~~
That is a platform that i can support. Become a delegate. collect petition signatures. donate money. talk to friends family, and neighbors about the message of Liberty and protecting it for our children (i have two little girls that i want to pass America to when i die).

Now. The other candidates and their ideas... They are politicians that have proven they would and will take any politically expedient stance on any issue if it will get them votes or money. Their track records prove that. Their own books (i have read newt's "Renew America", i do not know if Romney has written anything or if he can write complete sentences).

Romney stated in 2002 that MA had "the toughest gun laws in America" and he intended to keep them that way. Now he says he is NRA card carrying member.
Romney instituted ObamaCare in MA before it was called ObamaCare. It bankrupted the state.
Romney has said he supports detaining American citizens without due process in the name of security.
Romney would support some form of international Cap and Trade regime.

Newt voted to keep guns of college campuses and other federal restrictions on gun ownership.
Newt is for the Public individual mandate for health insurance, the cornerstone of ObamaCare.
Newt has public said the US Constitution is outdated and we need to rethink our notions of National Sovereignty.
Newt is a proponent of international Cap & Trade regimes.

the basis of what Newt and Romney stand for are Anti-American (defined by the U.S. Constitution and the notions laid forth by Madison, Jefferson, and Franklin at the founding).

Now, lets have a debate on the merits of the principles of the candidates. not on who is putting forth ****ing strawmen. What are the principles of the other candidates? seems to me like they change with the audience?

i will not apologize for being passionate about this, however i will apologize for language that may have upset anyone's sensitivities (especially mods and Mr. INGO ).

 

[Lex Concord]

Not only not helping, but hurting.

I understand getting worked up over this silly crap, but cussing belligerence and taking G_d's name in vain (He's my G_d, anyway) do nothing but turn people away.

I think you would do well to consider retracting your statement, or at least the incivility with which it was made.

EDIT: thanks for changing your statement.

 

[rambone]

It seems we are all pretty much on the same page except for the apparent dereliction of duty by Ron Paul's absence from a vote.

He has no duty to be present every for every single vote.

The people who voted in favor of the NDAA are the ones who betrayed their oaths.

At worst, skipping a vote is risking the favor of your constituency. I imagine that he calculated the risk, and felt that the American people would be better served by skipping this overwhelmingly-passed bill (which he already voted against once), and working toward winning primaries.

 

[IndianaSigma]

Excellent post Culpepper

We could sit here all day tearing individual candidates down......they all have their faults. If you're gonna tear one candidate down, then at least tell us who you DO support and why. Everyone feels differently about different issues and candidates. I'll continue to say that Ron Paul is the only candidate worth a in the last 12 years because that is how I feel. I'm not saying I agree with EVERY stance he takes or that he is perfect, but he's better than the rest IMO.

I love debates about politics, but they're easier in person.....especially because you can buy the guy you've been arguing with for the last hour a round of beers!

 

[fireblade]

@ CulpeperMM Now we have a discussion my friend.......... hear is my point sometimes we need to think equal with are heads and are hearts .

Ron Paul gets media ignored .....yes

Ron Paul get little debate time compared to other candidates .......yes

The status quo of the government do not like he's message of liberty and
the large support from younger Americans to it ......yes

Republicans do not want him as a GOP nominee .......yes

Cooperations with government contracts and the media want to limited he's message and discredit him .......yes

　

Lets face the facts the statue quo government party's and big cooperations who make money off them including the media will do all they can to make sure he's not the next president. My argument is i understand the constant defense mode us supporters can get into but again don't get so blinded by the constant attacks that you go in cult mode and squash any vetting people ask about RP . WE need votes not pissing people off and scaring vote away we have a up hill battle we are David fighting Goliath .


We need to keep a open mind to other concerns and question about Ron Paul and quit being so defensive of vetting on him show them your point of view explain to them in a non attacking way ...........we need his support to grow not stagnate ...AS for the NDAA its easy .....yes he should have voted no on the last vote ....admit it...... explain why in your view why it didn't happen .......and move on to the fact that he will remove it...... but to sit there and get back to defense mode .....as to why and make excuses saying it didn't matter is silly ....most supporter know it was a mistake and understand why it happen .....and understand he's the best man to stop it.......

But to circle the wagons on this issue and come off as a blind follower doesn't help get votes just being a Ron Paul supporter isn't enough we need to get others in a respectful way to vote for him......We need votes period all you harden RP supporter who go on the attack mode every time someone question a move or policy from Ron Paul is not getting more votes like i said before looking like a blind follower instead give them reason to vote for him the positive points defending every action is just plain silly and impossable...

 

[steveh_131]

Instead of generalizing about 'blind followers', why don't you respond to the arguments that he made the right decision?

Disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean someone is a blind follower. It may just mean you are wrong.

 

[fireblade]

you are missing the point got nothing to do with me ........i give up....wow

 

[steveh_131]

Yeah, I get it. It's how other voters perceive 'us'.

So how should I respond to threads like this? Lie and agree that this was a big mistake on his part?

 

[buckstopshere]

wow i bet some campaigning camp holding that card close to there chest can you image Ron Paul talking about NDAA how wrong and unconstitutional it was then some body throws out there if thats what you believed why didn't you vote on the final bill vote ......talk about a got ya moment........

I will Vote for him but note voting on the final bill wording and vote was a mistake and will come back to him at some point.......

I can't possibly see how tis comes back to haunt him. If any other candidate or, hopefully, Obama in a general election bring this up, RP will crush them.

Every candidate except Ron Paul said they would sign NDAA if they were POTUS. The actual POTUS did sign it. Anyone who tried to call him a hypocrite because he voted no, then missed the dec vote because he was campaigning, only to come back and make a speech before congress to repeal sec 1021 would be walking into a huge hole that RP would happily and easily bury them in.

 

[Lex Concord]

Rather than putting in his 1/435th, he was working to attain smackdown power (aka VETO) over legislative crap like this for at least the next four years.

And some people say the good Doctor isn't pragmatic

Edit: Plus, imagine Andrew Napolitono on the SCotUS. He'd make Clarence Thomas look like Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

 

[fireblade]

Yeah, I get it. It's how other voters perceive 'us'.

So how should I respond to threads like this? Lie and agree that this was a big mistake on his part?

easy ... on the NDAA final vote explain why you thing it don't matter to have a vote at that time......... then say but understand your view on the NDAA and how important it is to stop the unconstitutional parts of it ....but lets agree the best man to remove it is Ron Paul.....

we all may disagree on the steps and how best to get car up the hill but finding common ground and getting more people pushing the car (votes) will get us there... to the top

 

[buckstopshere]

My second issue is that were the roles reversed and some other candidate for president had sacrificed his obligation for the personal choice of campaigning, the very group of people giving Paul the pass would likely be first in line to excoriate the other party for identical transgression.

I know you said a lot more than this but I did want to point out that all the remaining candidates are "unemployed". Former Governor Romney, Former Speaker Gingrich, Former Senator Santorum. Yet all of these gentlemen are supposedly more electable than RP?

I can honestly say that I wouldn't chastise a presidential candidate of any party for missing a vote during their Presidential campaign. I called out BHO because he just never voted, and I applauded Hillary for at least makin a vote even if I disagreed.

I've said before that I think the zealots for Paul are understandable because it is so frustrating when a candidate that represents real change and true fiscal conservatism gets marginalized by MSM while during the 2008 election the MSM fueled the Hope and Change zealotry.

Freedom loving people are riled up. Heck, even Romney last night started taking a page from Dr Paul while talking about the federal governments over reach. I've never recalled him talking about that. In many peoples eyes and, when looking solely at empirical data of voting records and speeches, Ron Paul stands head and shoulders above all other candidates for individual rights and freedom. When the right and left are both squeezing out individual freedom, it's frustrating that the masses in the GOP who are supposed to care about this are blind to it.

Not saying the zealotry is right, not saying its wrong, just understand it. I'm being descriptive, not judgmental.