Run or Cower?

[Cameramonkey]

Based on the leaked video, the first word that came to mind was "linebacker" (for those behind)... that guy was totally focused on what was in front of him... looked like a good opportunity for a strip-sack for an aware person behind him. However, my first commitment is do what is necessary to protect my family, which includes surviving to continue to provide for them, since they don't need direct protection from this immediate threat.

So, realistically, probably run like hell... Second choice is to dive for cover. Whatever seems like it will give the best opportunity of survival at the time. Hard to say without being in the moment...

Let those who volunteer and get paid to deal with such situations (they are there to protect me, since the governments for whom they work decided I should be defenseless, right?) take care of the bad guy.

Along those lines, here's a perspective most likely haven't seen expressed very widely, if at all: https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/cops-form-perimeter-mass-murderer-goes-business/

Personally, I'm a fan of breaking the bystander effect. Im there, and the cops arent. If I had been in that chair instead of the old man and saw him walking away from me popping off shots oblivious to his 6, damn right I'm going linebacker. Cops that are minutes away?

I'd be doing the fastest and quietest sprint I could do. I'm no hero. If it were somebody not so focused on moving away from me and oblivious I would duck and cover first to reset the OODA loop. Not gonna lie. But I'm sick of the lay down and wait sheeple mentality.
As to the perimeter failure, this has been an issue since Columbine, but I know many departments are working to fix it by authorizing officers to team up and penetrate and start the sweep asap while their brothers setup the perimeter as they arrive to fill the hole the heroes leave as they head into the belly of the beast. I couldnt do it, thank you for those of you that do. You are appreciated.

Though I wonder how much psychological factor the airport property had on this. I could easily see "crap! This could be a large terrorist attack. Do we have the manpower to go? Should we wait for SWAT so we arent outgunned by Achmed?" (fog of war and all)

 

[AngryRooster]

I will not embed this and it's not pleasant to watch. It comes from Active Self Protection on YouTube. They have tons of good videos of actual encounters caught on tape. They break them down and analyze to learn from them. This one deals with the run/hide/fight and the recent mall shooting. It's from the surveillance cameras while it took place. Again, tough to watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb9x47qrMw

 

[Cameramonkey]

But seriously.....

I equate an active shooter to a crocodile attack and I have for a long time.

They say a gator will outrun you in a straight line BUT if you zigzag they can't turn very well.

I will run a zig zag pattern away from the shooter. That has been in my mental preps forever. Long enough that I consider it the scenario I will follow whether its right or not.

I think that was debunked, Mr. Gator Chow. But odds are if you stay a few feet from the water, you are safe as 99% of the attacks are in or within feet of the water. (surprise lunging attack from underwater by the shore)

Depends.

Things to ponder:

1) How close am I to the bad guy?
2) Where is the bad guy's attention?
3) Do I have available cover and/or concealment?
4) Would I be running diagonally or directly away from the bad guy?
5) How many other people are there?
6) Is he approaching me, moving parallel, or moving away from me?
7) Am I reasonably sure he's alone?

The answers dictate the response. If he's moving away from me, is focused on someone else, and no one else is running, and the distance is too great to Terry Tate him, then staying put may be the best answer so my movement doesn't draw his eye. If he's approaching me, a bunch of people closer to him are running, and I've got a diagonal way to escape, then running it is.

Things to remember:
1) movement draws attention
2) It's easier, mentally, to shoot someone in the back than the face
3) Moving laterally is harder to hit than moving forward or back, in respect to the shooter's sight picture.

Thanks for the input BBI. As noted earlier, running down the middle of the concourse is a BAD idea. However as I mentioned, being a "bad boy" and disregarding one of the many "do not enter, emergency exit" doors does provide an interesting, and also lateral/diagonal path based on my travel experience. (there is typically one at every pair of gates) And if I do that, Screw it. I'm not hiding. My butt is heading cross country. I'll stop when I hit the treeline and call in to tell them I'm safe. Screw rally points. Thats just another bunch of soft targets.

 

[igotdiesel2]

I was in a strange situation the Thursday after Christmas. I was going down I65 South from Southport Rd to Main Street exit. I was winding out the turbo in the middle lane when 2 IMPD cars passed me like I was going backwards. They had to get onto the left shoulder because the Jack Wangs in the high speed lane were not moving. All the sudden the took a right turn at County Line exit where a Southport SUV had a pickup pulled over. I immediately got in the right lane to get off the I when the 3 cars in front of me stopped COLD on the ramp entrance. So there I was behind the police on a felony stop with guns drawn. Thankfully away from me. The first thing I did was shift my truck in 4WD in case I had to get out and around in the grass. Then I undid my seat belt and pulled my sweatshirt up uncovering my pistol. Then I sat there watching the bad guys (1 girl driving, 1 guy in the passenger seat) Eventually all was clear with the police getting them in cuffs without incident and their weapons went back into their holsters and I was able to get back onto the I to get down to Greenwood.

I think I did everything right. I couldn't get away without possible damage to my vehicle so I got prepared for that as a last resort. I undid my seat belt in case bullets started flying and I wanted to get behind my truck for more stuff between me and the bullets. I uncovered my pistol because you never know what might happen. I was IN NO WAY going to run up to the police with my gun drawn and ask if they needed help. They are the pros, I'm just the guy who is going to protect himself.

CameraMonkey this is a very interesting topic. I am often sitting somewhere and thinking "What would I do if a gunman walked in right now and started shooting." If I can, I'm going to get out of the line of fire as quick as I can. If I have the family, I'm on top of them protecting them best I can. My kids even know what to do, they hit the deck and they know Daddy sits with his eyes are on the door.

I'm no BadA** by any stretch. I just hope and pray when the something happens to protect myself and or my loved ones. I also hope and pray that it never happens. -Jason

 

[bwframe]

If I'm close and the oportunity presents itself, I'll beat the shooter to a pulp with my cane or kubaton/flashlight.

 

[Excalibur]

In a stroke of luck that my brother wasn't shot, he threw a chair at a guy doing a **** poor attempt at a robbery while he was closing up shop.

 

[Expat]

Play dead...

 

[indiucky]

I've always been a fan of "serpentine"...

[video=youtube;A2_w-QCWpS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_w-QCWpS0[/video]

 

[sporter]

Throw numbchucks at the guy.

 

[Thor]

As BBI said, it depends on how far away the BG is. I say this as I sit in the Atlanta airport with a level III ballistic clipboard in my computer bag. If he's close I 'd think charge with the bag leading and take a chance at taking him down...if further away then I'd have some time to decide and given the number of folks around here more attention getting targets between me and the shooter. I hate this being only armed with your wits travel stuff.

 

[Alamo]

If I'm close and the oportunity presents itself, I'll beat the shooter to a pulp with my cane or kubaton/flashlight.

This brings up an interesting twist/side effect to this scenario that I had not thought of before the FLL shooting -- there were hundreds of people being screened at TSA checkpoints when the shooting started, and they all had to immediately flee, at least partly because the TSA directed them to do so. Thus they ended up with no shoes, no wallet, no money, no credit cards, no ID, no passports, no phones, no laptops, no coats (of course this was florida, but what what if Chicago in February?) no carry-on, no flashlights, no canes, no kubotons, no nuttin' except the clothes on their backs and the socks on their feet.

And it was going to take DAYS for them to reclaim their stuff.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement set up special stations ("IDs on Wheels" vans) to try to get people some kind of ID, issued by the state of Florida - apparently this was faster than the TSA's process for getting people's wallets etc back to them...

ETA: I just read that the TSA at FLL is now letting people go through screening with their shoes and belts on, and their laptops in their luggage -- because they've put bomb-sniffing dogs at each checkpoint.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article125278804.html

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Chicago's unarmed airport police told to stay away from trouble in baggage claim - CNN.com

 

[Cameramonkey]

Chicago's unarmed airport police told to stay away from trouble in baggage claim - CNN.com

If you aren't armed you aren't security. You are a babysitter.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

If you aren't armed you aren't security. You are a babysitter.

Or a cleanup crew.

 

[Robert Richardson]

If you aren't armed you aren't security. You are a babysitter.

They are "monitors ".

 

[rhino]

Throw numbchucks at the guy.

 

[szorn]

I'll file this post under the broad definition of Tactics"

First, presume you are in a prohibited environment, you didn't ignore the GFZ sign, and you don't feel confident you have an opportunity to take him out. For the sake of this discussion, the fight in run/hide/fight is not an option. (Don't want to muddy the waters) So for instance let's say this happened in the secure area of the terminal, So you don't even have your folder with you.

Tonight I listened during the news to an "expert" say that your safest bet isnt to run, but to take cover behind a solid object. He gave no other actions, so I presume once that happens you pray and hope he doesn't come your direction or runs out of bullets.

Given the probabilities I've seen in hitting a moving target at an increasing distance, coupled with the others around that are likely to have his attention, I can't say I agree.


So presuming you have a clear path and are physically capable of beating feet at reasonable pace, and aren't in an open field with nowhere to go to, which would you say is better? Do you think it's safer to sprint away from the kill zone (30-50 yards tops )and take your chances on bad aim or cower and pray he doesn't get that far?

Sadly, many of us with a spare tire, bad knee, or remember vividly the Beatles playing live (or all of the above) don't have that option. What about those that do?

Personally I'm still relatively fast and will take my chances Forrest Gumping it if given the opportunity. I might seek cover at first to evaluate the situation, but no way am I going to wait it out.

Edit: for simplicity and to keep this from getting way OT, assume you are traveling alone. (Im sure it still will, its INGO after all... I already see glimmers of wandering) Too many variables for this discussion to increase the size of your party.

Depends on numerous variables- spacial relationship, level of training, opportunity, etc.Who says that you have to be armed to engage the threat? Are you really "unarmed"-absolutely no items on your person or in your immediate environment that can be used defensively? The list goes on! To tell everyone that they must respond the same way without knowing all of the variables is negligent at best and outright life-threatening at worst. Not someone I would call an "expert" in any sense of the word.

 

[tetter]

Runrunrun

 

[foszoe]

Runrunrun

thenimontothenextone....

 

[actaeon277]

language warning


[video=youtube;bdaQHTWT_ZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdaQHTWT_ZI[/video]