Run or Cower?

[eldirector]

It is called "fight or flight" for a reason. If you don't need to be there, leave.

 

[Leadeye]

I'm in that old slow group, but I'm still going to run. Shooters are going for the closest target and unless they are really good shots, or using a submachinegun/shotgun, hitting a moving target is tough.

 

[Never A Victim]

There have been a lot of variables thrown out on the thread, but here is my opinion:

If I ran out of there and the gunman killed 50 people who were "waiting" for help, I'd never be able to forgive myself. Sure, not being armed and up against an armed attacker would be tough, but a proper mindset will make up for that.

If you're an able-bodied person and you're running away-well thats part of the reason these active shooters are so successful. Just my opinion.

 

[Never A Victim]

It is called "fight or flight" for a reason. If you don't need to be there, leave.

If people are dying and you're physically there-then you need to be there.

 

[eldirector]

If people are dying and you're physically there-then you need to be there.

.
If the odds are tipped heavily in my favor, sure. Not so in the scenario presented. My family needs me much, much more.

 

[cedartop]

It is called "fight or flight" for a reason. If you don't need to be there, leave.

People often forget the other F, Freeze. Unfortunately that one happens to a lot of people in all sorts of high stress incidents.

 

[cedartop]

.
If the odds are tipped heavily in my favor, sure. Not so in the scenario presented. My family needs me much, much more.

Definitely a decision everyone has to make for themselves. I wouldn't fault anyone for taking that route, though like Never a Victim, it is not the route I have decided I will choose. That is assuming of course that my family is either not with me, or already safe.

 

[JBP239]

My best bet would probably be to run in the situation mentioned by the OP. I have thought about situations that are similar that could happen where I work...If I was familiar with the environment and had access to remote areas of the building my stategy might change....in that case I would probably find a good hiding spot.

 

[Cameramonkey]

My best bet would probably be to run in the situation mentioned by the OP. I have thought about situations that are similar that could happen where I work...If I was familiar with the environment and had access to remote areas of the building my stategy might change....in that case I would probably find a good hiding spot.

Just remember, the "authorized personnel only" signs go out the window in that situation. Dont be afraid to use that "employees only" back room door if necessary.

And yes, the wanting to help those after the shooting stops is a tough one for me too. But what is it they say about things like putting your oxygen mask on first? You are of no use to ANYONE if you are dead. (unconscious)

 

[GIJEW]

I was told that there comes a time where your only cover are you're bullets. Hiding behind something bullet proof is a temporary solution unless the BG cant physically get to your location. Baggage claim areas have columns and baggage turnstyles that can be both cover and concealment that can be used to cover your exit. If you're close to the wall, you could hop on the turnstyle and disappear into the baggage handling area too.

Cameramonkey's suggestion of using those forbidden doors is good, and might bring you some armed protection...once they understand you're not part of the problem.

To Never-a-victim: I hear you. As a people, we don't have the fighting spirit we used to have, but unless someone is close I wouldn't expect them to charge into a hail of bullets.

 

[Never A Victim]

To Never-a-victim: I hear you. As a people, we don't have the fighting spirit we used to have, but unless someone is close I wouldn't expect them to charge into a hail of bullets.

That "fighting spirit" is the most often overlooked aspect of carrying a gun and using it. I guess that's what prompted me to post in the first place-I saw several people whom I know on here as firearms instructors telling people its ok to run away. I understand each situation has individual circumstances, but someone who calls themselves an "instructor" and telling others to run away really makes me frustrated.

 

[Cameramonkey]

That "fighting spirit" is the most often overlooked aspect of carrying a gun and using it. I guess that's what prompted me to post in the first place-I saw several people whom I know on here as firearms instructors telling people its ok to run away. I understand each situation has individual circumstances, but someone who calls themselves an "instructor" and telling others to run away really makes me frustrated.

So why is it never OK to run away if you are carrying? Do you think by carrying you are therefore obligated unconditionally to engage? Unless you are a cop, you have every right to pick and choose your battles.

I may or may not engage. The circumstances dictate whether I'm going to "play the game". Sometimes playing is a no-win situation. I'm worth more to my family alive than as a dead hero who did his best but failed against superior odds.

 

[rhino]

So why is it never OK to run away if you are carrying? Do you think by carrying you are therefore obligated unconditionally to engage? Unless you are a cop, you have every right to pick and choose your battles.

I may or may not engage. The circumstances dictate whether I'm going to "play the game". Sometimes playing is a no-win situation. I'm worth more to my family alive than as a dead hero who did his best but failed against superior odds.

Why would anyone think it's never okay to run away?

 

[ColdSteel223]

Shark tank.
Something/someone has fallen into a shark tank.
Do you jump in?
It depends on what/who has fallen in.
Do you need to, can you solve the problem, is it really your problem to solve?
You have the rest of your life to decide.
You shouldn't plan always run or never run, you just can't plan for ALWAYS.

Know when to walk away, know when to run.
Know when to jump in, know when to shoot some bastard in the back of the head from three feet while he is looking the other way.

 

[szorn]

There is a difference between ego and the proper fighting mind-set. Ego will cause people to run into danger regardless of risks to self and others. The fighting mind-set will support appropriate responses based on an analysis of the risks to all of those involved. Having the proper mind-set doesn't mean that you haphazardly rush into danger expecting to become the hero. Nor does the fact that you are armed. Just read the various news stories where people risks their lives and often losing them by rushing into danger without analyzing the risks and having the appropriate training to support their actions.

"Instructors" that don't provide their students with the option of running away based on a solid understanding of their own knowledge, skills, and limitations should NOT call themselves "instructors".

Steve

 

[bwframe]

^^^ THIS ^^^

"Saving the day" can turn into costing lives unnecessarily. There was arguably no reason for this "hero" to die. Luckily no one else was caught in the crossfire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Las_Vegas_shootings

 

[ColdSteel223]

There is a difference between ego and the proper fighting mind-set. Ego will cause people to run into danger regardless of risks to self and others. The fighting mind-set will support appropriate responses based on an analysis of the risks to all of those involved. Having the proper mind-set doesn't mean that you haphazardly rush into danger expecting to become the hero. Nor does the fact that you are armed. Just read the various news stories where people risks their lives and often losing them by rushing into danger without analyzing the risks and having the appropriate training to support their actions.

"Instructors" that don't provide their students with the option of running away based on a solid understanding of their own knowledge, skills, and limitations should NOT call themselves "instructors".

Steve

Agreed. You have to think first. Training helps to streamline the thought process and allows you to focus on the task at hand instead of "going off half-cocked"

 

[Lex Concord]

Bottom line, answering this question is akin to solving the "root cause" of the latest climate variation.

There are so many unknowable variables, the weight of whose impact on the instantaneous calculations required at the time will vary with each passing millisecond in the moment of decision that one can never truly know what he or she will do until in the moment.

That said, it's certainly a good thought exercise to consider with some baseline assumptions in place so that your brain has a framework to work with should you ever be confronted with such a horrible moment.