Santorum: Separation Of Church And State 'Makes Me Want To Throw Up'

[level.eleven]

I'm not sure I agree with this rather broad generalization, though.

Why not?

 

[steveh_131]

I'm stating that the two cannot be separated as long one or the other is practiced. I certainly rambled a bit in that post.

You're saying that you can't separate your religious beliefs from your political beliefs? I'm not sure about this.

Example 1: Rick Santorum. He claims to be a Christian, believes many victimless activities are immoral, and therefore thinks they should be illegal. This is a good example of not separating the two.

Example 2: Ron Paul. He is a Christian, believes many victimless activities are immoral, but does not think that means they should be illegal. This is a good example of separating the two.

Why not?

I could just as easily say that today's science will be tomorrow's mythology

 

[level.eleven]

You're saying that you can't separate your religious beliefs from your political beliefs? I'm not sure about this.

Example 1: Rick Santorum. He claims to be a Christian, believes many victimless activities are immoral, and therefore thinks they should be illegal. This is a good example of not separating the two.

Example 2: Ron Paul. He is a Christian, believes many victimless activities are immoral, but does not think that means they should be illegal. This is a good example of separating the two.





I could just as easily say that today's science will be tomorrow's mythology

Is it possible to separate infallible proclamations from your decision making process?

 

[spencer rifle]

Anyone who is familiar with the Jefferson quote about "separation of church and state" will know that, taken in context, it advocates for keeping government OUT of the "official religion" business, not keeping religion out of government. It is not possible to separate a person's worldview from their decision making (look at our current president). That is as it should be. I hope you are not advocating that only Christians should separate their worldview and decision making.

I applaud Santorum's honesty is stating that his morals and religion inform his decision making. At least you know where he stands. Unlike some other politicians, who will either change "convictions" on a whim (like the GOP frontrunner) or simply hide them until it is too late (look at our current president, again).

Comparison of Christianity and Islam demonstrates a lack of knowledge and judgement.

 

[steveh_131]

Is it possible to separate infallible proclamations from your decision making process?

Could you be more specific? Maybe provide an example?

I suppose it does depend on the religion being discussed. Many religions probably do conflict. I should have specified that I was only discussing the one.

 

[level.eleven]

I could just as easily say that today's science will be tomorrow's mythology

Rightly, so if it were debunked by observation. That is the essence of reason. How was Zeus debunked?

 

[spencer rifle]

Rightly, so if it were debunked by observation. That is the essence of reason. How was Zeus debunked?

So you have decided to apply empiricism to a philosophical concept? Good luck with that.

 

[sbcman]

Santorum should really read the Danbury Baptist letter to Thomas Jefferson. In ironies of all ironies, it was Christians who were insisting on a separation of church and state. We Baptists have been there and done that when the church was one with the state. It didn't work out real well for us (you only have to get through a couple state sanctioned drownings to decide the union of state and church is a bad thing). I am a Christian and a Baptist and believe with all my heart and soul and strength that Christ is the only salvation for man. But I will be the first to say that if a man wants to follow Christ or have 2 gods, 10 gods or no gods, let him do so by his own conscience and let the government keep their reach out of his convictions.

As for Christianity or other faiths influencing government- yeah folks, that's just the way it works. If you don't like what we promote, promote your own agenda and let the workings of the Republic do what it does. I would venture to say that there are a ton of lobbyists folks need to worry much more about damaging society than any group of faith.

 

[steveh_131]

Rightly, so if it were debunked by observation. That is the essence of reason. How was Zeus debunked?

I don't have the slightest idea. Was Greek mythology debunked? Or did it just fade into legend?

 

[Paul]

Santorum should really read the Danbury Baptist letter to Thomas Jefferson. In ironies of all ironies, it was Christians who were insisting on a separation of church and state. We Baptists have been there and done that when the church was one with the state. It didn't work out real well for us (you only have to get through a couple state sanctioned drownings to decide the union of state and church is a bad thing). I am a Christian and a Baptist and believe with all my heart and soul and strength that Christ is the only salvation for man. But I will be the first to say that if a man wants to follow Christ or have 2 gods, 10 gods or no gods, let him do so by his own conscience and let the government keep their reach out of his convictions.

As for Christianity or other faiths influencing government- yeah folks, that's just the way it works. If you don't like what we promote, promote your own agenda and let the workings of the Republic do what it does. I would venture to say that there are a ton of lobbyists folks need to worry much more about damaging society than any group of faith.

My problem with Santorum is that he wants his religion to dictate rights of the people. I don't care the candidates religion as long as they stand strong for personal liberty.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

My problem with Santorum is that he wants his religion to dictate rights of the people. I don't care the candidates religion as long as they stand strong for personal liberty.

What you seem to be saying is that you're okay with the current morality as expressed by the government and television, but don't let anyone else express their beliefs or act on them if they interfere with yours. Is that right?

 

[rambone]

What you seem to be saying is that you're okay with the current morality as expressed by the government and television, but don't let anyone else express their beliefs or act on them if they interfere with yours. Is that right?

That sounds nothing like what Paul just wrote.

But Blackhawk has a history of disingenuous posting.

 

[steveh_131]

That sounds nothing like what Paul just wrote.

But Blackhawk has a history of disingenuous posting.

Oh, snap.

 

[Paul]

What you seem to be saying is that you're okay with the current morality as expressed by the government and television, but don't let anyone else express their beliefs or act on them if they interfere with yours. Is that right?

What????

I never said I agree with the current morality, but DC cannot regulate morality. Also Santorum is the biggest Washington DC insider, so he has no morals.

I do not want anyone regulating how I or anyone else lives their lives as long as if doesn't hurt others.

 

[level.eleven]

I don't have the slightest idea. Was Greek mythology debunked? Or did it just fade into legend?

Why is he not the one to which you referred up-thread? Why did you rule him out?

 

[steveh_131]

Why is he not the one to which you referred up-thread? Why did you rule him out?

You lost me, now. Are you talking about Zeus? What did I rule him out of?

 

[CampingJosh]

Is it possible to separate infallible proclamations from your decision making process?

Yep. I'm a Christian. There are many, many activities that I believe are immoral that are very common in our society.

I believe that people should not engage in those immoral behaviors. I also believe that God gave each person free will. If God isn't choosing to physically act to stop people from doing these things, then I won't either.

I will try to convince them of my views and the reasoning for my views, but coercion wasn't one of Jesus' tactics. There are many stories in the Gospels where Jesus told a person what was the right thing to do and then watched the person walk away and do something different.
"Christian" = "little Christ" = act like Jesus yourself, not force others to act like you think Jesus should have acted.

 

[sepe]

Yep. I'm a Christian. There are many, many activities that I believe are immoral that are very common in our society.

I believe that people should not engage in those immoral behaviors. I also believe that God gave each person free will. If God isn't choosing to physically act to stop people from doing these things, then I won't either.

I will try to convince them of my views and the reasoning for my views, but coercion wasn't one of Jesus' tactics. There are many stories in the Gospels where Jesus told a person what was the right thing to do and then watched the person walk away and do something different.
"Christian" = "little Christ" = act like Jesus yourself, not force others to act like you think Jesus should have acted.

What about the non-believers? Even though you have free will, what do you think gives you the right to try to convince them of your views? That sounds like you're pushing your views onto others. Most non-believers I know really do not appreciate that.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What about the non-believers? Even though you have free will, what do you think gives you the right to try to convince them of your views? That sounds like you're pushing your views onto others. Most non-believers I know really do not appreciate that.

Do what you do when something comes on the tv you don't like or you get a phone call in which you don't want to participate.

Seems easy enough to me.

 

[ATM]

What about the non-believers? Even though you have free will, what do you think gives you the right to try to convince them of your views? That sounds like you're pushing your views onto others. Most non-believers I know really do not appreciate that.

We're all free to try to convince others of our views. What sort of restrictions do you think exist to stop such attempts?

Others are free to consider or ignore these attempts and may appreciate the effort or not.

Unless there is some violation of another's actual rights in the process, what about the common right to communicate do you find lacking?