Shoot / Don't Shoot

[CMac]

you guys that say you would do nothing are.... well cowards. And part of what is wrong with america these days. There is NO WAY you can "tell" if the situation is going to escalate until he pulls that trigger.... the robber is in the driver seat. And that is NOT how this world is meant to run. But with all the liberal hippies and a couple of you guys sooooo worried about yourself and your "legal issues" you would rather wait till the very last second to decide if my wife/grandma/sister/mom/aunt/cousin/any female I know or care about is worth your legal battle.

Those are pretty bold accusations to be throwing at people you don't know after readed a few lines on a web site. I'm a hard core conservative not a liberal hippie. I will freely admit I've never been in this situation so maybe I would react as a coward, but I don't so.

No matter if you shoot or don't shoot there is a chance the clerk and you will die either way. Trying to figure out which one has the best chance of clerk/you staying alive is the goal. Therefore I (maybe I'm a dreamer) would like to think that some of the people saying don't shoot aren't cowards. They simple think that has the best chance to achieve the goal.

Along that line, is it more commen for muscles to clentch up (thus bad guy pulling trigger killing clerk) or to relax (drops gun) when someone experiences a gun shot wound?

Personally I agree with some previous posts. Move to get the clerk out of the line of fire (and get cover if possible) and shoot till the threat is eliminated.

 

[KW730]

def agree with bombelli.... you guys that say you would do nothing are.... well cowards.

Someone that doesn't have enough confidence in themselves to risk an innocent person's life is a coward? What makes you credible to state this as a fact? Do you know all of them personally?

I'm a hard core conservative not a liberal hippie.

And I'm a liberal hippie, not sure what that has to do with anything. I feel confident enough playing this through in my mind that I would engage, but who really knows what they will do until they are actually faced with the decision?

 

[jbombelli]

Someone that doesn't have enough confidence in themselves to risk an innocent person's life is a coward? What makes you credible to state this as a fact? Do you know all of them personally?



And I'm a liberal hippie, not sure what that has to do with anything. I feel confident enough playing this through in my mind that I would engage, but who really knows what they will do until they are actually faced with the decision?

1) it's the flipside to being accused of wanting to cause a murder because the person making that accusation that doesn't have enough confidence in himself assumes you're just as incompetent as he is, and

2) Mindset is extremely important. It's the only thing that is as important as, if not more important than, training.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

What this is about IMO is helping or walking by.

There seemed to be a strong opinion of do nothing, let it play out.

To help one has to risk life or liberty.

In this scenario one risks there life for sure.

Ones freedom will not come into question, not in this state.

The entrire point is not to trust an armed felon with some ones life.

That is why one gets a good shot and stops the threat, until the threat is gone.

 

[LP1]

What this is about IMO is helping or walking by.

There seemed to be a strong opinion of do nothing, let it play out.

To help one has to risk life or liberty.

In this scenario one risks there life for sure.

Ones freedom will not come into question, not in this state.

The entrire point is not to trust an armed felon with some ones life.

That is why one gets a good shot and stops the threat, until the threat is gone.

Re the bolded portion -
1. Don't bet on it.
2. You better have a pile of cash laying around for legal fees.

 

[cg21]

if you arent confident enough in your shooting skills to use when it is needed why carry????

I dont care if you dont shoot him..... grab a glass bottle bust him over the head... your pocket knife.... whatever but dont stand around and do nothing.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

 

[tom1025]

if you arent confident enough in your shooting skills to use when it is needed why carry????

I dont care if you dont shoot him..... grab a glass bottle bust him over the head... your pocket knife.... whatever but dont stand around and do nothing.

All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing

I carry for Personal Protection. If I know you and LIKE you I will help. If not figure it out. It's not my responsibility to fight someone else's battles.

 

[cg21]

Ok so because the clerk behind the counter is someone elses loved one it is of no concern to you? interesting.

so if your certified in CPR and someone is choking....? thats no concern of yours either?

 

[J4Me]

So, I'm the OP. Glad to see that this thread has generated so much interest. My intent was, among other things, to see how people would react to the fact that the clerk is a twitch away from eternity, not whether or not the cash was worth saving. Also, as LTCH holders, we need to think about how we would react to these types of situations from a moral, legal, tactical angle.

I think it's good to discuss these situations because it helps us to think them through ahead of time and sometimes we can gain additional perspective from others.

 

[tom1025]

Ok so because the clerk behind the counter is someone elses loved one it is of no concern to you? interesting.

so if your certified in CPR and someone is choking....? thats no concern of yours either?

It's like this. Two years ago I would go out of my way to help others. Now without going into detail I will extend the same amount of help to others that our 13 year-old daughter received when she was fighting for her life. ZERO. No one was concerned at the time that she was someone's daughter, little sister, big sister, grandchild, etc.

 

[XDmShootr21]

It's like this. Two years ago I would go out of my way to help others. Now without going into detail I will extend the same amount of help to others that our 13 year-old daughter received when she was fighting for her life. ZERO. No one was concerned at the time that she was someone's daughter, little sister, big sister, grandchild, etc.

So instead of doing what you would have wanted others to do for your daughter you're just going to repeat the actions of the sheeple that stood by and did nothing?

It's alo kind of ironic Abe Lincoln is your avatar....considering all of those slaves weren't "his problem" and therefore, in your logic, not his responsibility to help.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

 

[Paul30]

Besides that what kind of person would work at a gas station unarmed anyways? If your not willing be proactive and take the steps to protect yourself then don't expect others around you too.

For liability reasons, most company's including gas stations and your local stop and rob prohibit employees from carrying weapons. I knew a middle aged lady that worked in one that had a baseball bat behind the counter, but she called it her lost and found. Some little boy left it there and she was waiting for him to come back and get it.

 

[tom1025]

For liability reasons, most company's including gas stations and your local stop and rob prohibit employees from carrying weapons. I knew a middle aged lady that worked in one that had a baseball bat behind the counter, but she called it her lost and found. Some little boy left it there and she was waiting for him to come back and get it.

Good for her for being proactive and thinking outside the box. As far company policy goes, unless your passing through security or metal detectors they have no way of enforcing it. CC and don't tell anyone.

 

[churchmouse]

We can run this scenario over and over in our heads. Until you are actually standing there and involved (or not as some would be timid) there is no way of really knowing what you would do. In this society there is a total lack of respect for life and most of these deals end up with the BG shooting the little old lady for sport.
If you are un-noticed and the BG is focused on the clerk the advantage is with you. To circle out of sight and use your side arm as a bludgeon (repeatedly if possible) cuts out a lot of paper work and questions. If you have ever seen someone get smacked with a stainless 1911 they do not remain standing. This would of course be contingent on his muzzle position and your ability to lay someone out and not pull your strike.
Again, until you are actually there it is all conjecture.
Most civilians do not have the sack for such actions.

 

[cg21]

well tom... I am sorry to hear that something bad happened to your daughter... but you can rest assured if I were in the vicinity I wouldnt stand by idle because she is "someone elses" also for you to continue the trend... is just furthering the petiness and self absorbed culture.





and for the record I am no john wayne / leo wannabe looking for trouble by all means I will avoid bad situations but if one presents itself to me I would not be able to stand by and watch.


and to clarify my previous post yes those that would stand and watch I would consider cowards. or as chruchmouse would say they lack the sack.

 

[tom1025]

So instead of doing what you would have wanted others to do for your daughter you're just going to repeat the actions of the sheeple that stood by and did nothing?

It's alo kind of ironic Abe Lincoln is your avatar....considering all of those slaves weren't "his problem" and therefore, in your logic, not his responsibility to help.

I like I said up thread. Just depends if I like you or not. It's an honest answer like it or not dosnt really matter. As far as the avatar goes it's just a picture. Dosnt define who I am no more than your avatar defines you.

 

[churchmouse]

tom1025'
I to am saddened for your daughter and the family. It is obvious none of my family or friends were around. We have problems with thugs, thieves, bully's and A$$ Clowns. I have caused myself more trouble by getting involved in these things than I can explain. None of us can stand idly by and watch harm to person or property. I/we have been in cuffs a few times for this reason. Nuff said and I hope your daughter is OK.

 

[tom1025]

tom1025'
I to am saddened for your daughter and the family. It is obvious none of my family or friends were around. We have problems with thugs, thieves, bully's and A$$ Clowns. I have caused myself more trouble by getting involved in these things than I can explain. None of us can stand idly by and watch harm to person or property. I/we have been in cuffs a few times for this reason. Nuff said and I hope your daughter is OK.

I appreciate your kind words. She's in gods hands now.

 

[churchmouse]

I appreciate your kind words. She's in gods hands now.

Well, you can say she is OK for that but I am truly sorry for your loss. I have lost a son so I do understand the pain.
Be well,
Stay strong,

-CM-