SIG selected as new service handgun

[M67]

Glock wasn't even in the running. Lots of people want to believe that Sig beat Glock here but they didn't. They beat STI-Detonics and Beretta. Glock doesn't offer a modular handgun nor a manual safety.

Glock recently made pistols without any finger ridges

Would it really have killed them to try and do a thumb safety proto to compete for this contract?

 

[Route 45]

I think the down-select came down to Sig and Glock.
Glock might or might not protest the contract award (no indication either way, just saying it is possible).
Article I read said the caliber would be either .40 S&W or 9mm. Some reports have 9mm being the more likely choice.

I don't see how it wouldn't be a 9mm, given the NATO compatibility issue and the lower costs.
I would, however, love to watch the 9mm bandwagon brigade's heads explode if they chose .40 caliber.
Standard designation for the .40 could be 10mm NATO, it has a nice ring to it. But then, 10mm fans' heads would also explode.
How many .40 S&W pistols could Sig sell after rebranding them SOCOM 10mm NATO models? The .40 reborn!

I'm just rambling......

 

[Route 45]

That thumb safety looks awfully close to the slide lock lever. Meh.

 

[phylodog]

Glock recently made pistols without any finger ridges

Would it really have killed them to try and do a thumb safety proto to compete for this contract?

Why would they? Their guns already have three safeties, if Big Green can't figure that out that isn't Glock's fault. I'm guessing they'll get by OK with the USMC, SOCOM, FBI and majority of US LE contracts.

 

[Route 45]

Glock recently made pistols without any finger ridges

Would it really have killed them to try and do a thumb safety proto to compete for this contract?

Thumb safeties are stupid, and Glock knows it. No need to muck up a proven design with useless garbage intended to save idiots from themselves.
But that's another thread.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Since the bigger, slower moving lead projectile doesn`t pass through the target, it transfers more of it`s kinetic energy into that target, providing a better opportunity for the holy grail of handgunning, the one-shot-stop.

.

That's not how handgun terminal ballistics work.

 

[M67]

Why would they? Their guns already have three safeties, if Big Green can't figure that out that isn't Glock's fault. I'm guessing they'll get by OK with the USMC, SOCOM, FBI and majority of US LE contracts.

Same reason they made a model without finger ridges? Someone asked for it?

Thumb safeties are stupid, and Glock knows it. No need to muck up a proven design with useless garbage intended to save idiots from themselves.
But that's another thread.

I'm a hammer fired gun person. I like thumb safeties and decocks. Strikers just feel weird to me. Different tastes but, they're not stupid. Really in that meaning the tabbed trigger glock runs is stupid. The 320 doesn't have one. It uses different striker safeties inside.


There are gen 1 glocks out there with thumb safeties BTW

 

[Woobie]

Why would they? Their guns already have three safeties, if Big Green can't figure that out that isn't Glock's fault. I'm guessing they'll get by OK with the USMC, SOCOM, FBI and majority of US LE contracts.

There is a lot of institutional inbreeding on thumb safeties. It won't be going away for a long time, and there are some legitimate reasons for it, actually. But mostly that one is stupidity.

Frankly, I couldn't be happier Glock didn't get the contract. Their **** poor triggers and one-of-a-kind grip angle are just bad designs, errr, umm, perfection. They make a cheap product for budget-conscious customers, and they work. Sig makes nicer stuff for people who aren't as tightly constrained. And I say this as someone who prefers other pistols to Sigs.

 

[oldpink]

There is a lot of institutional inbreeding on thumb safeties. It won't be going away for a long time, and there are some legitimate reasons for it, actually. But mostly that one is stupidity.

Frankly, I couldn't be happier Glock didn't get the contract. Their **** poor triggers and one-of-a-kind grip angle are just bad designs, errr, umm, perfection. They make a cheap product for budget-conscious customers, and they work. Sig makes nicer stuff for people who aren't as tightly constrained. And I say this as someone who prefers other pistols to Sigs.

*cough* Walther *cough*

 

[Woobie]

*cough* Walther *cough*

Ha! You've seen it. I do like it better, but they didn't submit an entry, and it isn't modular. I'm optimistic about this Sig, though.

 

[phylodog]

Same reason they made a model without finger ridges? Someone asked for it?

The Gen1 & Gen2 pistols didn't have finger grooves so these weren't a significant departure from their design.

There is a lot of institutional inbreeding on thumb safeties. It won't be going away for a long time, and there are some legitimate reasons for it, actually. But mostly that one is stupidity.

Frankly, I couldn't be happier Glock didn't get the contract. Their **** poor triggers and one-of-a-kind grip angle are just bad designs, errr, umm, perfection. They make a cheap product for budget-conscious customers, and they work. Sig makes nicer stuff for people who aren't as tightly constrained. And I say this as someone who prefers other pistols to Sigs.

I'm not arguing one way or the other for thumb safeties, simply pointing out that Glock and Sig weren't in competition on this contract.

We can agree to disagree on the Glock design. Their triggers aren't match quality for sure but I don't have an issue hitting what I'm aiming at. If I wanted to be a jerk I could make a statement that those with lesser skills need a better trigger. I won't because I don't feel that way.

Their grip angle falls into the same category. If properly approached it works quite well. Not necessarily better or worse than others, its simply different.

They make simple, reliable, easy to maintain and affordable products which do the exact same thing as the other striker fired pistols on the market. The 320 is a nice pistol, it's also significantly more complicated to maintain should something go wrong and considering the substantially increased number of parts, the possibility is there. If something goes wrong with a Glock I can completely rebuild it, at 3am, under a street light with nothing other than a punch. While that may not be of value to you, it is of value to plenty of others.

 

[oldpink]

Ha! You've seen it. I do like it better, but they didn't submit an entry, and it isn't modular. I'm optimistic about this Sig, though.

Ditto
In fact, I'm a bit puzzled by all the "Ewwww! Ugly!" comments directed at it.
Admittedly, it's not nearly as pretty as the 1911 or the M9, but it bears the inherent beauty of utilitarianism to at least my poorly cultured eye.
The modular design, if able to cope with the rigors of combat and some abuse, would certainly make things easier for armorers, both for repairs and for special applications when a caliber change or the like is called for.

 

[M67]

The Gen1 & Gen2 pistols didn't have finger grooves so these weren't a significant departure from their design.

But they're going "back on their design", messing with glock "perfection". That's what I find funny about the finger ridges. Nope, not needed for the longest time, then the finger ridges were must haves and the you don't have an option to not get them. Now....well...we'll make them without for a special contract. They went back to gen 1 tech on the no finger ridges but couldn't pull a gen 1 proto design for a thumb safety?

 

[phylodog]

I guess they figure three safeties was enough and they weren't too concerned about this trial.

 

[Woobie]

The Gen1 & Gen2 pistols didn't have finger grooves so these weren't a significant departure from their design.




I'm not arguing one way or the other for thumb safeties, simply pointing out that Glock and Sig weren't in competition on this contract.

We can agree to disagree on the Glock design. Their triggers aren't match quality for sure but I don't have an issue hitting what I'm aiming at. If I wanted to be a jerk I could make a statement that those with lesser skills need a better trigger. I won't because I don't feel that way.

Their grip angle falls into the same category. If properly approached it works quite well. Not necessarily better or worse than others, its simply different.

They make simple, reliable, easy to maintain and affordable products which do the exact same thing as the other striker fired pistols on the market. The 320 is a nice pistol, it's also significantly more complicated to maintain should something go wrong and considering the substantially increased number of parts, the possibility is there. If something goes wrong with a Glock I can completely rebuild it, at 3am, under a street light with nothing other than a punch. While that may not be of value to you, it is of value to plenty of others.

I can hit what I aim at with a Glock, but it requires adjustment of my grip, it points very high in a way no other pistol does. So if I committed to Glock, I would be fine, but stuck readjusting to any other pistol. As it is now, I only have to stop and adjust with Glocks.

My beef with the trigger is that it is unnecessarily bad. HK, Walther, CZ and Sig all figured it out, Heck, the Canik TP9 has a markedly better trigger. I just don't like when companies are either too lazy or arrogant to figure out what other companies have no trouble doing. This is why Toyota overtook GM, and no one today uses AOL. If you don't make your product better, someone else will.

I've never been issued a punch, and I really don't want the disciplinary action for performing 20 or 30 level maintenance on a pistol, even if I had the spare parts. The only spares I see are barrels for machine guns. But a pistol is a backup for me. My rifle is my lifeline. You're kinda stuck with a pistol as a primary, so there are different needs.

 

[Woobie]

Ditto
In fact, I'm a bit puzzled by all the "Ewwww! Ugly!" comments directed at it.
Admittedly, it's not nearly as pretty as the 1911 or the M9, but it bears the inherent beauty of utilitarianism to at least my poorly cultured eye.
The modular design, if able to cope with the rigors of combat and some abuse, would certainly make things easier for armorers, both for repairs and for special applications when a caliber change or the like is called for.

I actually think it looks better than the m9. Nothing will ever look like a 1911, though. As far as durability, MAC certainly ran one through the ringer. It did about as well as most of the other striker pistols, IIRC. None were perfect in his tests.

 

[phylodog]

You're kinda stuck with a pistol as a primary, so there are different needs.

There ya go, that's all I was saying. Not better, not worse, just different.

I gave up shooting other brands of pistols years ago (other than the occasional few rounds through a new model for familiarity) so I don't have to adjust.

 

[Woobie]

There ya go, that's all I was saying. Not better, not worse, just different.

I gave up shooting other brands of pistols years ago (other than the occasional few rounds through a new model for familiarity) so I don't have to adjust.

If I worked for an agency that issued Glocks, I would probably do the same, to avoid the adjustment.

 

[phylodog]

If I worked for an agency that issued Glocks, I would probably do the same, to avoid the adjustment.

The decision to stick with one platform had little to do with the grip angle. It had everything to do with every difference between every different pistol on the market. Turned out to be a good decision.

 

[Trigger Time]

Well this was due to price and modularity. Bad choice in my opinion but the guys who will actualy use their sidearms in combat are carrying GLOCKS mostly and have been since around 2002