Except they aren't really. Well, maybe a few persons at the Occupy rallies are talking about fiat currency, and there might be someone concerned about the Federal Reserve's monetary policies, but you are much more likely to find those protestors at a Tea Party rally. The bank bailouts you find are equally despised by both Occupy protestors and Tea Party protestors, but an important difference is the Occupy protestors seem to mostly be mad the money wasn't given to them, while the Tea Party protestors believe the money shouldn't have been taken from the taxpayer to begin with, let alone doled out to business entities that screwed up with their risk assessments. Corporate control of government is a valid idea to protest against, but the Occupy folks seem ok with big money in Washington, so long as it is Big Union or Soros money; they're ok with the game so long as their side is winning. I don't blame the (mostly) kids that make up the bulk of these protests really (at least the ones that aren't wearing masks and looking at these protests as an excuse to engage in hooliganism under the auspices of "social activism"); they were brought up to think that they are entitled to earning big bucks after taking a Social Awareness bachelor's degree at a liberal leaning university paid for by their parents, and don't realize they are being manipulated by the media and the special interests aligned with the Left. But not blaming them doesn't mean I'm willing to redistribute wealth to them because they believe they're entitled to it.
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soo with all this wallstreet stuff..whats our take?
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Except they aren't really. Well, maybe a few persons at the Occupy rallies are talking about fiat currency, and there might be someone concerned about the Federal Reserve's monetary policies, but you are much more likely to find those protestors at a Tea Party rally. The bank bailouts you find are equally despised by both Occupy protestors and Tea Party protestors, but an important difference is the Occupy protestors seem to mostly be mad the money wasn't given to them, while the Tea Party protestors believe the money shouldn't have been taken from the taxpayer to begin with, let alone doled out to business entities that screwed up with their risk assessments. Corporate control of government is a valid idea to protest against, but the Occupy folks seem ok with big money in Washington, so long as it is Big Union or Soros money; they're ok with the game so long as their side is winning. I don't blame the (mostly) kids that make up the bulk of these protests really (at least the ones that aren't wearing masks and looking at these protests as an excuse to engage in hooliganism under the auspices of "social activism"); they were brought up to think that they are entitled to earning big bucks after taking a Social Awareness bachelor's degree at a liberal leaning university paid for by their parents, and don't realize they are being manipulated by the media and the special interests aligned with the Left. But not blaming them doesn't mean I'm willing to redistribute wealth to them because they believe they're entitled to it.
If the protest could move the country in the right direction to end crony capitalism, then I'm all for them. Too many of them, tho aren't making the distinction between capitalism and crony capitalism (which is what we have in this country). More people adding their voices in that direction, and explaining it to these kids, would be a good thing.
The protesters are upset that Palins not running.
Also heard its because of the Bacon shortage.
Or could they just be scared that the last welfare check they received could actually be their last welfare check?
Get a job.
Read the following link:
Communists Nazis and Obama support this movement.
How can there be any logic in even approaching these people?
This is how is started in Russia in 1917. How come Americans are so blind to how they are being manipulated.
Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements | The Gateway Pundit
Communists Nazis and Obama support this movement.
How can there be any logic in even approaching these people?
This is how is started in Russia in 1917. How come Americans are so blind to how they are being manipulated.
Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements | The Gateway Pundit
SemperFiUSMC
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- Jun 23, 2009
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Honestly all I hear is:
we don't have jobs and our student loads are too high; and
(insert the particular cause of whomever advocates on behalf of the protesters here).
Anarchy is the logic end of communism.
My understanding (feeble though it may be) is that Marxism (eg, Leninism or what the Soviet Union called Communism) and Facism are both totalitarian and extreme examples of a "liberal" use of governmental power. True commune-ist societies (such as Harmony and New Harmony, Indiana, and Amana, Iowa) were governed in such a "conservative" manner as to be damn near anarchy.
I guess my answer to your question, then, would be "no". Marx (and and his buddy Engels) advocated liberal governmental involvement to the point of totalitarianism via an oligarchy. The title "The Communist Manifesto" is, itself, disingenuous.
Or am I way off base?
There you go talking facts and speaking the truth again.
{the smilie is there for sarcasm}
According to definition Marxism is: "A theory in which class struggle is a central element in the analysis of social change in Western societies.” (hmmm.. sound like any Presidents we know?)
Socialism is defined as: "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." Marx saw socialism as a transition from a capitalist system to a Communist one.
Communism is defined as: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
(It has also been postulated that communism is a heretical form of 1st Century Christianity in which God has been replaced by the state as the supreme authority -- Francis Shaeffer re: Acts 2:44-45.)
So it goes from private ownership of production to communal ownership (with the state as the overseer) to completely state ownership of all means of production.
What the Occupy group seems to me to be largely advocating is essentially Marxist philosophy, tinged with Communism.
Socialism is defined as: "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." Marx saw socialism as a transition from a capitalist system to a Communist one.
Communism is defined as: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
(It has also been postulated that communism is a heretical form of 1st Century Christianity in which God has been replaced by the state as the supreme authority -- Francis Shaeffer re: Acts 2:44-45.)
So it goes from private ownership of production to communal ownership (with the state as the overseer) to completely state ownership of all means of production.
What the Occupy group seems to me to be largely advocating is essentially Marxist philosophy, tinged with Communism.
Superficial similarities in end goals does not make them common sense demands. Their reasons for doing so are ignorant and stupid.
Not reasonable either, IMO. A presidential commission? Nothing will stop the influence of money. Even federal legislation will fall short. Now it's just unethical and possibly illegal. That hasn't stopped anybody. Why would something making it completely illegal be any different?
Agree with 88GT on this
1) You can't legislate morality. You can legislate crime - i.e. you can make bribery illegal - but you can't legislate that money have no influence.
2) A Presidential commission? yeah, that accomplishes a lot.
3) Let's make something (say guns???) illegal.... will they still be around and still have influence? You KNOW the answer to that. Why should money be any different?
Lowering the influence of money on politics is a noble goal. There's no way a leftist really wants that. It's a false flag - and the stooges rallying are the suckers.
The way to lower the influence of money on government is to lower the size of government - period. The smaller the government, the less control it has. The less control - the less power and influence it can maintain. Why are millions spent campaigning for a Congressional seat that pays $100k+ a year? The answer is simple - the INFLUENCE is worth it.
These protesters are simply stooges - supported by my enemy (Obama,SEIU,et al). I won't thump on them - for it is their right to protest. But I can't support them - as they are totally misguided. I choose to just leave them be.
In the NYT this morning, there's a discussion that the OWS participants are beginning to realize they haven't really articulated demands. When there is a political movement, worldwide, that basically has no platform, WHY is anyone taking it seriously? I'm waiting to see what happens when the first OWS demonstrations, against the sitting government, take place in China. Then you will see whether Communists support the movement or not. (Hint: um, no)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/n...treet-trying-to-settle-on-demands.html?ref=us
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/n...treet-trying-to-settle-on-demands.html?ref=us
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I was listening to some guys that are really in tune to the movement. They said that at this point, they do not have any demands or actual positions. But they are beginning to work on formulating those. I found it vaguely entertaining that they thought it made the group superior to other groups because they were waiting to decide what they were demonstrating about for a considerable amount of time.
I have been detecting a whiff of antisemitism in some of the live feeds I have been watching that is disturbing.
I have been detecting a whiff of antisemitism in some of the live feeds I have been watching that is disturbing.
Two weeks ago every conservative newsie and blogger was reporting on the group's demands, after they were released to the public in a discussion board thread by some random forum member. I've already mentally committed to what the talking heads told me about the movement. They are stinky law-breaking commies.
Let's just come out with it then. [STRIKE]The Tea Party[/STRIKE] Occupy Wall Street is racist.
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I caught a whiff of it 2 weekends ago in downtown Indy. The more I read about adbusters, the more it concerns me if they are really that involved with this.
I'm going to make another run downtown this weekend to see what's changed.
Rich keep getting richer. Middle class become poor.
All while republicans keep touting corporate welfare because they "give us jobs."
They give mexicans jobs. They give canadians jobs. They give brazillians jobs. They give chinese jobs.
Yea, they are giving YOU jobs.
All while republicans keep touting corporate welfare because they "give us jobs."
They give mexicans jobs. They give canadians jobs. They give brazillians jobs. They give chinese jobs.
Yea, they are giving YOU jobs.
I had posted this a an other INGO blog. But this is what I am seeing first hand.
Actually it is our government that is shipping out the jobs, not the corporations. Manufacturers in the US pay a 35% tax on what they make, in Ireland it is 12% in Singapore it is 2%. How can we manufacture anything here with that type of tax burden. The companies cannot compete without exporting the jobs. The wages that I have seen are actually close to if not higher than some US wages in high end or advanced manufacturing (technology and medical items).
It's the taxes that are killing us. Get government out of the way of our manufacturing industries and we will have an economic recovery overnight. What those other countries do not have is the quality of workmanship that is in the US.
Drop the taxes on manufacturers and the jobs all come back.
I don't see him saying that at all. Is there a reason you're being obtuse or belligerent on this matter?
A whiff of racism
Aren't Jews notoriously liberal voters, by the numbers? Aren't these OWS crowds incredibly diverse? The whiff of racism doesn't even pass the common sense sniff test for me. At least show me one protester's sign as proof of the movement's beliefs.
I was getting called a closet racist before it was mainstream. People made similar claims at anti-tax rallies that I helped organize. I even got called a Nazi a couple weeks ago holding my Ron Paul For Liberty sign. This could explain why the Racist Card makes me puke in my mouth.
Aren't Jews notoriously liberal voters, by the numbers? Aren't these OWS crowds incredibly diverse? The whiff of racism doesn't even pass the common sense sniff test for me. At least show me one protester's sign as proof of the movement's beliefs.
