Spartanburg Leo Interaction "Shoot Me Like Michael Brown

[steveh_131]

I think if you're a libertarianish police officer (not sure there are many of those) you pick your battles. But I'm sure a majority of police officers think seat belt laws save lives. So it's not like they're going against their own principles to justify what they're doing by "just doing my job".

I can still blame them for having bad principles.

Would you agree that wearing seat belts increases your chances of not being injured in an accident (or perhaps lessens the severity of injuries)? If so, then by not wearing a seat belt you are increasing the risk pool for insurance companies. When their risk increases, their rates go up, meaning MY rates go up through no fault of my own. That makes me feel victimized.

Are you kidding me with this?

There are those that do begrudge cops enforcing the law *cough* Steve *cough* though...

What can I say, I am a firm believer in personal responsibility.

 

[phylodog]

Officers openly admit they'll use any pc they can find to initiate a stop and justify it because they get all kinds of bad guys off the street over a burnt out license plate bulb. Imagine the crimes they could witness using unattended lights as pc.

I'll try standing on a street corner with a sign that says "wanted murderers, rapists, robbers and burglars turn yourself in here" and see if that proves to be more effective.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'll try standing on a street corner with a sign that says "wanted murderers, rapists, robbers and burglars turn yourself in here" and see if that proves to be more effective.

If the ends justify the means when it comes to seatbelt laws, imagine how many more criminals we could bust with my unattended light law.

 

[phylodog]

If the ends justify the means when it comes to seatbelt laws, imagine how many more criminals we could bust with my unattended light law.

If you'd like to see it passed and hope the result is more criminals taken off the streets then you have the right to contact your elected representatives and get the ball rolling. Same right you have to contact them to about repealing the seat belt laws. I realize it's much easier to blame those charged with enforcing the laws than those who actually wrote them or those who lobbied for them.

If those stinkin cops would only enforce the laws that everyone wants enforced just think of all of the enforcement that would get done.

 

[jbombelli]

Would you agree that wearing seat belts increases your chances of not being injured in an accident (or perhaps lessens the severity of injuries)? If so, then by not wearing a seat belt you are increasing the risk pool for insurance companies. When their risk increases, their rates go up, meaning MY rates go up through no fault of my own. That makes me feel victimized.

States are free to eliminate seat belt laws. Doing so will result in their federal highway funds being cut (legal blackmail). It's fine to not agree with a law. There is a system in place to get those laws changed if you can convince enough of your fellow voters to get their representatives to agree with you.

Why should the police be the protectors of insurance companies' bottom line and revenue streams? That's what your argument boils down to.

 

[hornadylnl]

Why should the police be the protectors of insurance companies' bottom line and revenue streams? That's what your argument boils down to.

That's the justification for it but it's not the real reason. It's a constitutional work around.

 

[steveh_131]

I realize it's much easier to blame those charged with enforcing the laws than those who actually wrote them or those who lobbied for them.

Not true. I blame everyone involved, including those who voted for these idiots who would write such laws.

 

[hornadylnl]

Not true. I blame everyone involved, including those who voted for these idiots who would write such laws.

A tyrant without anyone to carry out his decrees is just a blowhard with no ability to carry them out.

 

[phylodog]

Not true. I blame everyone involved, including those who voted for these idiots who would write such laws.

Either you have never voted or you've voted for those who have assisted in getting laws passed that you disagree with, guaranteed.

LE is my line of work. I don't like working the streets so I found a niche which allows me not to. If you guys can get it agreed upon that every person in my jurisdiction must agree with a law before it can be enforced I'll be begging to go back to the street. Driving around for 8.5 hours a day doing absolutely nothing would be an awesome change of pace.

A tyrant without anyone to carry out his decrees is just a blowhard with no ability to carry them out.

Yes, yes, I am the devil in flesh, brought forth onto this earth to punish thee by enforcing laws that no one wants.

 

[hornadylnl]

Either you have never voted or you've voted for those who have assisted in getting laws passed that you disagree with, guaranteed.

LE is my line of work. I don't like working the streets so I found a niche which allows me not to. If you guys can get it agreed upon that every person in my jurisdiction must agree with a law before it can be enforced I'll be begging to go back to the street. Driving around for 8.5 hours a day doing absolutely nothing would be an awesome change of pace.



Yes, yes, I am the devil in flesh, brought forth onto this earth to punish thee by enforcing laws that no one wants.

You want to say that the entire blame lays on those passing the law. I'm simply stating the fact that laws mean nothing without enforcement.

You will refer to me from now on as lord and master of your universe. How much respect you hold to that decree is entirely dependent on my ability to enforce it on you. Is it just hollow words posted on the internet or is there someone out there willing to enforce my decree who will see to it til your death if need be to ensure you refer to me as your lord and master?

 

[phylodog]

You want to say that the entire blame lays on those passing the law. I'm simply stating the fact that laws mean nothing without enforcement.

You will refer to me from now on as lord and master of your universe. How much respect you hold to that decree is entirely dependent on my ability to enforce it on you. Is it just hollow words posted on the internet or is there someone out there willing to enforce my decree who will see to it til your death if need be to ensure you refer to me as your lord and master?

You can decree yourself whatever you wish, without the authority it is meaningless.

I like you HLNL but you have got the most severe problem with authority that I've ever seen. You also see everything in a vacuum which makes it difficult to engage in an honest debate with you. Unfortunately we don't live in a vacuum, life would be much easier if we did. When I worked the street I enforced the laws which were put into place by many people, not a tyrant. There is a process involved and this is how this country operates. The fact that some people believe the police should only enforce laws they believe in is a form of tyranny in it's own right.

 

[hornadylnl]

You can decree yourself whatever you wish, without the authority it is meaningless.

I like you HLNL but you have got the most severe problem with authority that I've ever seen. You also see everything in a vacuum which makes it difficult to engage in an honest debate with you. Unfortunately we don't live in a vacuum, life would be much easier if we did. When I worked the street I enforced the laws which were put into place by many people, not a tyrant. There is a process involved and this is how this country operates. The fact that some people believe the police should only enforce laws they believe in is a form of tyranny in it's own right.

I hardly call 2 honorable discharges and working for the same employer for 15 years upon leaving the army a problem with authority. In fact, I've never been fired from a job.

Whether a decree is issued by 1 person or a multitude through the electoral process makes no difference in the legitimacy of the decree. We've seen the tyranny the majority has foisted on Americans in the past. Yes, seat belt laws are extremely trivial in the grand scheme of things. But on the other extreme, you have enforcers who want to deflect any personal responsibility by declaring they were following orders. Is either extreme perfect? Absolutely not. But choosing between the individual or state, I know which I will choose every time.

 

[N8RV]

If you haven't seen this video, perhaps it will show you how a "routine traffic stop" can change in a heartbeat when the driver opens his car door.

I can't side with the driver in this case. I don't care if he's had a bad day. It's not the cop's job to teach him manners or make allowances for bad potty training. No, blame the cop all you want, but I think he demonstrated exceptional self-control.

Anyway, watch this video and see why maybe cops get a little nervous when a driver decides to exit his vehicle suddenly ...

[video]http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh2GGjh4txO9175d3m[/video]

 

[steveh_131]

LE is my line of work. I don't like working the streets so I found a niche which allows me not to. If you guys can get it agreed upon that every person in my jurisdiction must agree with a law before it can be enforced I'll be begging to go back to the street. Driving around for 8.5 hours a day doing absolutely nothing would be an awesome change of pace.

I'm not sure what your point is.

You can choose not to enforce stupid laws. If you choose to enforce them, that choice is on you. The choice to enact the laws is on the person who enacted them, but that does not relieve you of your responsibility to do the right thing.

I think that taking money from people who are trying to go about their lives is not the right thing.

 

[BogWalker]

The officer has a job. That job is to enforce the law. A worker in an automobile factory can not say "I won't produce this part because it is a bad design feature".

 

[steveh_131]

The officer has a job. That job is to enforce the law. A worker in an automobile factory can not say "I won't produce this part because it is a bad design feature".

He certainly can. And if the particular part has safety implications, I would expect him to do so.

 

[phylodog]

I hardly call 2 honorable discharges and working for the same employer for 15 years upon leaving the army a problem with authority. In fact, I've never been fired from a job.

Whether a decree is issued by 1 person or a multitude through the electoral process makes no difference in the legitimacy of the decree. We've seen the tyranny the majority has foisted on Americans in the past. Yes, seat belt laws are extremely trivial in the grand scheme of things. But on the other extreme, you have enforcers who want to deflect any personal responsibility by declaring they were following orders. Is either extreme perfect? Absolutely not. But choosing between the individual or state, I know which I will choose every time.

I didn't say you were a moron who couldn't hold a job, if you were that type I wouldn't like you.

It does make a difference in the legitimacy of the decree. The Declaration Of Independence would have held little meaning or significance with only one signature. As I mentioned, we do not live in a vacuum. We developed this nations as just that, a nation of united people rather than a bunch of individuals. We've been moving away from that for some time now and this country is worse off for it.

 

[phylodog]

I'm not sure what your point is.

You can choose not to enforce stupid laws. If you choose to enforce them, that choice is on you. The choice to enact the laws is on the person who enacted them, but that does not relieve you of your responsibility to do the right thing.

I think that taking money from people who are trying to go about their lives is not the right thing.

15+ years in this line of work and I have written exactly 0 seat belt tickets. Have I used that law to my advantage to investigate people I suspected were up to no good? You bet, can't do it any longer but when it was permissible I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I've made 300 seat belt traffic stops. If all checked out I didn't get into anyone's pocket. If they had a warrant or other reasons to go to jail they went.

 

[hornadylnl]

The officer has a job. That job is to enforce the law. A worker in an automobile factory can not say "I won't produce this part because it is a bad design feature".

As an industrial maintenance man, I oversee the operation and functionality of the equipment. If my management tells me to make a machine unsafe to run, I have the responsibility not to do it. In your example, the part producer is likely not qualified to know if it's a bad design feature, else he'd be the engineer and not the machine operator.

If someone gets injured due to my actions, I bare culpability, if not criminal liability. If I feel that my employer's disregard for employee safety to be detestable, I'm free to seek employment elsewhere. Or I could just throw my hands up in the air and say I was just following orders.

 

[steveh_131]

15+ years in this line of work and I have written exactly 0 seat belt tickets. Have I used that law to my advantage to investigate people I suspected were up to no good? You bet, can't do it any longer but when it was permissible I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I've made 300 seat belt traffic stops. If all checked out I didn't get into anyone's pocket. If they had a warrant or other reasons to go to jail they went.

Good for you on the first count...

Not too thrilled about the second one, but I know this is rampant in law enforcement and I certainly won't act like it makes you a bad guy. But I don't think it's right.