State Fair / Carry - That time of year again.

[chipbennett]

All this "I'm going to sneak in my handgun" nonsense takes the "criminals don't follow the laws" argument to a new and unattractive level.

Except, laws that prohibit the carrying of firearms are an explicit violation of the second amendment, and are therefore null. The government may enforce them, but they are in the wrong, morally and constitutionally, in doing so.

Whether one wishes to challenge this point, and assume all the risks attendant in doing so, is another question altogether. But exercising a natural, constitutionally protected right does not make one a criminal.

 

[jfed85]

Entered the state fair on the east side of the grounds at the fall Creek entrance (across from 39th street bridge) last night at 7:00 PM. No bag checks, no wands, no metal detector, etc.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Except, laws that prohibit the carrying of firearms are an explicit violation of the second amendment, and are therefore null. The government may enforce them, but they are in the wrong, morally and constitutionally, in doing so.

Whether one wishes to challenge this point, and assume all the risks attendant in doing so, is another question altogether. But exercising a natural, constitutionally protected right does not make one a criminal.

Are we still talking about the state fair? Is it a state run event? I honestly don't know. If it isn't, then it's simply a rule we are talking about (unless appropriate signage is posted), in which case, ignoring a rule (again with out proper signage) only makes one a rule breaker, and not a criminal. I guess it really depends on the person and the situation whether to respect the rule. And I personally, if not a LEO, would myself probably ignore said rule.... at least at the state fair.

 

[chezuki]

Are we still talking about the state fair? Is it a state run event? I honestly don't know. If it isn't, then it's simply a rule we are talking about (unless appropriate signage is posted), in which case, ignoring a rule (again with out proper signage) only makes one a rule breaker, and not a criminal.

At the risk of sounding like Donnie Baker, this one actually is "State Law".

80 IAC 4-4-4
Deadly weapons prohibited
Authority: IC 15-13-2-9
Affected: IC 15-13-2; IC 15-13-7

Sec. 4. (a) This rule does not apply to a federal, state, or local law enforcement officer or to a person who has been employed
or authorized by the state fair commission to provide security protection and services during the annual state fair.
(b) No person in possession of a deadly weapon shall be permitted onto or be permitted to remain on the fairgrounds during
the annual state fair.
(c) Any deadly weapon found in the possession of a person while on the fairgrounds during the annual state fair is subject to
immediate confiscation by law enforcement officers or other persons authorized by the executive director of the state fair commission.
(d) Any person properly licensed to carry a firearm must secure the firearm in a locked compartment of his or her vehicle, and
it shall not be visible to passersby.

 

[chipbennett]

Are we still talking about the state fair? Is it a state run event? I honestly don't know. If it isn't, then it's simply a rule we are talking about (unless appropriate signage is posted), in which case, ignoring a rule (again with out proper signage) only makes one a rule breaker, and not a criminal. I guess it really depends on the person and the situation whether to respect the rule. And I personally, if not a LEO, would myself probably ignore said rule.... at least at the state fair.

See Chez below. It's actually in the IC to allow the State Fair to set its firearms policy.

I contend that any laws that prohibit the carry of firearms, anywhere, are unconstitutional and therefore moot. But, asserting that position is also far outside of my tolerable level of risk. Rather than assuming the risk of exercising my natural, constitutionally protected right (in violation of a moot state statute), I will simply pick and choose when I attend the fair - and if I end up giving up the fair altogether, so be it.

 

[TheSpark]

At the risk of sounding like Donnie Baker, this one actually is "State Law".

IANAL.

You are correct, however, I believe there is a twist in that the law does not define what charge is.

To mud things up even further I'm not even sure if they can charge or arrest you since is it a criminal offense, is it just a citation, ...?

For what it is worth people who are caught are often just asked to leave. I think I've read about the police confiscating the gun(s) as well but not sure if they got them back or not.

If you google there was a guy a couple years ago caught with 5 guns at the state fair. He was asked to leave and that was the end of it.

 

[jqunac]

As a rural native Hoosier who watches the news I have little interest in visiting Indy or the state fair, if I can't carry there is zero chance.

 

[Cameramonkey]

At the risk of sounding like Donnie Baker, this one actually is "State Law".

I still want to know what happens when they exercise C. Are your property rights terminated and it is destroyed, sold at police auction, etc? Do you have to reclaim it later from someplace like the IMPD property room? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I still want to know what happens when they exercise C. Are your property rights terminated and it is destroyed, sold at police auction, etc? Do you have to reclaim it later from someplace like the IMPD property room? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thats state property, so ISP is in charge of enforcing the rules. If they take your gun, it would go to their property room. It would only go to ours if it was taken by an IMPD officer (or another department that uses our property room). From the stories I have heard ISP will disarm you and escort you off the property, then give your gun back. The way I understand it, the statute is an administrative rule, not a criminal code.

 

[Mgderf]

... The way I understand it, the statute is an administrative rule, not a criminal code.

Either way, the fact that someone, ANYONE, may enforce it is the best reason to avoid the area entirely.
It may also be a good idea to let all of the local businesses in the area know that you probably would have patronized their establishments during the course of the state fair, but due to the unwelcoming attitudes of the city you chose not to attend the fair.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Either way, the fact that someone, ANYONE, may enforce it is the best reason to avoid the area entirely.
It may also be a good idea to let all of the local businesses in the area know that you probably would have patronized their establishments during the course of the state fair, but due to the unwelcoming attitudes of the city you chose not to attend the fair.

I appreciate your dedication. I will still attend the fair. In fact, I'll probably be there Saturday with my daughter.

 

[Trigger Time]

I wonder if they are wanding to get into the coliseum or other concerts. Not that it stops anything

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thats state property, so ISP is in charge of enforcing the rules. If they take your gun, it would go to their property room. It would only go to ours if it was taken by an IMPD officer (or another department that uses our property room). From the stories I have heard ISP will disarm you and escort you off the property, then give your gun back. The way I understand it, the statute is an administrative rule, not a criminal code.

Awesome, thanks!

 

[MCgrease08]

I wonder if they are wanding to get into the coliseum or other concerts. Not that it stops anything

I don't think so. I've never seen wands at any event at the Coliseum.

I'm at the free stage concert now and it's totally open. No entrances at all. Just walk on up.

 

[roscott]

Another good reason to carry a Glock. They don't set off metal detectors!

 

[SpiritClump]

Was there today and they were holding up the incoming lines by checking bags, having people empty pockets and giving cursory pat downs to people. One person even had a wand. Apparently they've been reading about INGO people trying to get around the regulations.

Whoops Did I do thaaaat?

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

For what it's worth, I went to the state fair yesterday with a group of four people. We parked in the lot by fallcreek parkway. No frisks, no wandings, no emptying of the pockets...

 

[Spencir]

For what it's worth, I went to the state fair yesterday with a group of four people. We parked in the lot by fallcreek parkway. No frisks, no wandings, no emptying of the pockets...

I can attest to this.

 

[denwag]

Any and all times I am in Indy I carry. I will not go to any event with my wife present walking back to the car after dark unless I am carrying. I will not got to the State Fair period.

 

[jrogers]

I can deep fry terrible food at home if I really want to get fat and die of a heart attack. Awful carnival rides are almost as easy to come by. Someone remind me what the point of the fair is barring some perverse desire to smell livestock waste.