STG-2003-C AK perfection?

[SavageEagle]

Again, reliability I'm not sure about because I've never shot one, and haven't read any threads pertaining to them

 

[Fenway]

Do you want a rifle shooting rifle calibers? Or pistol calibers? You have gone from 7.63 5.56 and now we are talking about 9 and 45????

 

[SavageEagle]

Do you want a rifle shooting rifle calibers? Or pistol calibers? You have gone from 7.63 5.56 and now we are talking about 9 and 45????

I don't nessesarily want one in 9 or 45, but if I got a second rifle to carry or for the fiancee, maybe a 9 or 45 wouldn't be so bad. But as a Primary rifle I would want the 223. Sorry for the confusion. I don't remember what the Rx4 is chambered in. It's no longer on Beretta's website that I saw. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[SavageEagle]

according to the "wiki" it comes in 223 and 556. Which is better for distance since they are practicly the same but still different?

 

[epsylum]

according to the "wiki" it comes in 223 and 556. Which is better for distance since they are practicly the same but still different?

5.56 can safely shoot .223, not the other way around.

 

[SavageEagle]

5.56 can safely shoot .223, not the other way around.

Ok but that's sort of confusing. How is that possible? and what is the better of the two, interchangability aside?

 

[epsylum]

Ok but that's sort of confusing. How is that possible? and what is the better of the two, interchangability aside?

They are essentially the same caliber. 5.56 = the NATO standard version of .223 Remington. The difference being that 5.56 has a slightly longer throat to the chamber. A .223 chamber could cause a high pressure situation if 5.56 ammo is shot through it. 5.56 is also slightly higher pressure.

Since the 5.56 chamber is the looser of the two, it is safe to shoot .223 through it.

 

[SavageEagle]

appreciate it. So it sounds like a 5.56 would be a better choice chambered wise. And I would be right to assume the 5.56 would have greater range and knock down power?

 

[Disposable Heart]

appreciate it. So it sounds like a 5.56 would be a better choice chambered wise. And I would be right to assume the 5.56 would have greater range and knock down power?

The 5.56 chamber will allow you to fire essentially any commerical or military cartridge in .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO. That would be the better choice. As for "KO" power, the difference between the two is only chambering. There is a difference in pressure, however, the velocities can be almost equivalent with the right commerical loadings. So in summary: Yes there is a difference with 5.56 NATO loadings (not just chamberings) being technically more powerful, but everything varies upon ammunition manufacture and type of bullet at the end. Which is more powerful doesnt come into the equation. Similar arguement is which is more powerful: 9mm Luger or 9mm NATO? Same round, one is loaded a little hotter, but either can be equal with appropriate loadings from many many factories.

Realistically, for a beginner user, just stick with a 5.56 chamber and fire anything cheap that is .223 or 5.56. As for which one is more powerful, that is always debated along with which is better 9 or 45? Wouldnt worry about it at this juncture.

 

[SavageEagle]

Sounds good. What do you all think of the Bushmaster ACR?

 

[SavageEagle]

LOL ok I just read it's delayed until late 2009 due to other "military" projects. Damn. Oh well. It looks nice...

 

[Lars]

The ACR is just another AR-15 with a gas piston, and some flashy parts imho.

Since the Military was considering it, it'll be popular, and expensive.

 

[SavageEagle]

expected retail for 1400

 

[Lars]

and $1400 is awful expensive compared to a Baby Desert Eagle, any AK-47, and a lot of other fine weapons. I personally don't see the draw to having Military hardware. A rifle, sure, even a nice semi automatic rifle like an AR.

But let's be real, How often are you going to have to use a rifle to shoot a bad guy through a cinder block wall? And if you do shoot a bad guy through a cinder block wall, what are the chance you are not going to be brought up on charges?

 

[indykid]

The CX-4 Storm in .45 is the weapon you want if you are worried about "knock down power" because you are a bad shot. As to the Beretta RX-4 rifle, forget about it, it is pure vaporware in the good old US of A where we have the right to keep and bear arms as long as they are ok'd by our government first. Beretta decided it was not worth the trouble to "federalize" the RX-4, and have little help from the Italian government with all their export restrictions. Yes they have a factory in the US, but they are busy supplying our military first, non-uniformed civilians need not apply.

 

[SavageEagle]

cool, I wondered why they took the Rx4 off the website. Yes 1400 is more than I want to spend, but when i win the lotto that I never play it'd be nice. LOL Anyway, IF I had a round that shot through a ciderblock wall, I sure wouldn't waste it one some BG for something stupid. I'd save those for all out war and severe target practice! LOL Which is why I'm considering building an AR or getting an AK. I really appreciate everyones input. Lemme find some guns to test fire and then make my decision.

 

[SavageEagle]

How about for the long shot? Read about the WASR being good for the LS. Any other FAIRLY cheap long range bolt action? Single shot or with a mag.

 

[indyninja]

your posts remind me of my nephew with ADD.

 

[karlsgunbunker]

Where are you getting this? According to the Kokalis article posted on IO's website, the STGs are made in Romania and start life as a single-stack, thumbhole stock configuration just like the WASRs. What's more, the STG-2000 barrel has a completely different profile and muzzle thread pattern than the real STG-940.

I bought mine before the article was published.
At that time they were saying "German Barrel" now they are saying "Steyr Technology".
I could have mis-read the original add at AIM, but since it is no longer on their site, I can't verify it.

You know haow it is when a new rifle comes out, it takes awhile to get the straight dope.

 

[techres]

How about for the long shot? Read about the WASR being good for the LS. Any other FAIRLY cheap long range bolt action? Single shot or with a mag.

The long shot? Don't go AK then. Even my PSL is outshot by an AR. I have an AK addiction, looks/fun/reliability/etc., but I would never claim accuracy. If you go that route, with those expectations, you will be very disappointed.

As for having a good, all round, weapon, the reality is that there is no final one. That's why gunsafes are full of this and that.

Now, if you want one platform to do a bunch of different things, the AR lends itself well to that. A 16" carbine is good all around. A 9mm lets you shoot cheap and use for home defense if that makes you comfortable (I will stick with .223 myself). A 20"+ lets you plink out to longer ranges, but short of Zombie hunting that will never be a practical skill for civilian use.

If you just want to buy alot of different things and make excuses for why they are "practical" solutions to real life "problems", then welcome to the club because you are in good company. The trick though is that we do not have to keep up the code language when our spouses are not in the room.

Take me for example. I own one really practical rifle - a Bushmaster AR. I also own several AK's (big, small, etc.) and the are my favorites but are dissappointing at the range compared to the AR. On the other hand the AR is boring, without flavor or variety, or for that matter, looks. But I try not to let that confuse me with the reality of the best tool in my kit.

Oh, and all the magazine reviews and reviewers are basically lies. Better to borrow a rifle at the range and see for yourself. Otherwise you will spend ungodly money on weapons that you end up trading back in at a loss. Don't ask me how I know...