Stop Arresting People

[ThrottleJockey]

I've been on this site for two weeks, and it is becoming painfully obvious that people have no solid concept how law enforcement works. And I'm not singling you out ThrottleJockey, but the premise of this thread was custodial (ie taken to jail) arrests.
Firstly, as referenced by UncleMike, driving with no license is an infraction. I'll assume you meant driving with a suspended license (dws) or operator never licensed (onl). A first offense dws is an infraction (mandatory Court apperance) however a 2nd dws (what we call a prior) is, along with onl, an arrestable offense. I have seen maybe 3 or 4 people in all my time in LE ever taken into custody for those offenses. I myself have never done it. Typical those that are taken into custody have some sort of ridiculous driving history, that you wonder why they aren't HTV.

I for one spent 180 days in Marion County jail for it. Second time I was ever pulled over for anything in my life. I lost my license years earlier due to a judgment from an accident I had been in without insurance (at that time insurance wasn't required). So it DOES happen and is a point of great contention for me. In todays society, driving is NOT a privilege, but a necessity of life and should be treated as such. That is six months of my life I will never get back and for NO legitimate reason other than an officer having a bad day or wanting to make points (and perhaps an overzealous judge that was removed from the bench and placed in environmental court by the feds a few months later). I'd like to add, Marion Co. jail at that point in time was really no place for anyone guilty of these horrific crimes I committed, I actually witnessed not only one, but TWO murders in the holding tank during the 23 days I spent on that concrete floor YUP, a full 9 days longer than the law allowed. To top it all off, they actually expected me to spend my year sentence laboring in the kitchen!!! Yeah, right. I told them to shove their "trustee" spot where the sun doesn't shine and spent 180 days bouncing around from one cell block to another while they tried to figure out where to put me. Did I also mention that I saw several actual criminals come and go repeatedly during my time there? Yup, crack dealers, rapists, etc....revolving door while I sat and rotted for trying to go to WORK. The whole driving/burnt out light/BS equipment violation crap will ALWAYS get a rise out of me.

 

[Whosyer]

There is nothing more enjoyable than the look of disappointment on the local yokels face, when he pulls you over at 3 am for that burned out lisence plate light, to find that you are sober and on your way home from work. ( That was one heck of a run on sentence. wow!)

 

[ThrottleJockey]

There is nothing more enjoyable than the look of disappointment on the local yokels face, when he pulls you over at 3 am for that burned out lisence plate light, to find that you are sober and on your way home from work. ( That was one heck of a run on sentence. wow!)

Yeah, but it always leads to the "Do you have any______in the vehicle? Do you mind if I have a look?" BS we've been discussing in sooooo many other threads.....

 

[Kutnupe14]

I for one spent 180 days in Marion County jail for it. Second time I was ever pulled over for anything in my life. I lost my license years earlier due to a judgment from an accident I had been in without insurance (at that time insurance wasn't required). So it DOES happen and is a point of great contention for me. In todays society, driving is NOT a privilege, but a necessity of life and should be treated as such. That is six months of my life I will never get back and for NO legitimate reason other than an officer having a bad day or wanting to make points (and perhaps an overzealous judge that was removed from the bench and placed in environmental court by the feds a few months later). I'd like to add, Marion Co. jail at that point in time was really no place for anyone guilty of these horrific crimes I committed, I actually witnessed not only one, but TWO murders in the holding tank during the 23 days I spent on that concrete floor YUP, a full 9 days longer than the law allowed. To top it all off, they actually expected me to spend my year sentence laboring in the kitchen!!! Yeah, right. I told them to shove their "trustee" spot where the sun doesn't shine and spent 180 days bouncing around from one cell block to another while they tried to figure out where to put me. Did I also mention that I saw several actual criminals come and go repeatedly during my time there? Yup, crack dealers, rapists, etc....revolving door while I sat and rotted for trying to go to WORK. The whole driving/burnt out light/BS equipment violation crap will ALWAYS get a rise out of me.

Exactly how long ago was this? I'll be honest, there seems like there's some pertinent details missing from this story. Now, I don't expect you recall your personal experiences for criticism. If that's they way things went down, you have my sympathy.

 

[Hotdoger]

I've been on this site for two weeks, and it is becoming painfully obvious that people have no solid concept how law enforcement works. And I'm not singling you out ThrottleJockey, but the premise of this thread was custodial (ie taken to jail) arrests.
Firstly, as referenced by UncleMike, driving with no license is an infraction. I'll assume you meant driving with a suspended license (dws) or operator never licensed (onl). A first offense dws is an infraction (mandatory Court apperance) however a 2nd dws (what we call a prior) is, along with onl, an arrestable offense. I have seen maybe 3 or 4 people in all my time in LE ever taken into custody for those offenses. I myself have never done it. Typical those that are taken into custody have some sort of ridiculous driving history, that you wonder why they aren't HTV.

Yeah right.
From the thousands of us that have been on the receiving end of how enforcement works , we don't know anything about it.

 

[machete]

Nope. They are being told to not do their jobs. They are told what their jobs are by higher ups. If higher ups would do their part, there would be no need for police to be forced to decide what laws to enforce and what laws to NOT enforce.

cops already decide what laws to enforce and what not to enforce...

every ticket i ever got came from title 9,,, when was the last time the local cops enforced title 13 or title 24??? theyre laws... theyre on the books... what are the cops doing to enforce these laws??? should those laws be repealed since the cops aint enforcing them???

its laws,,,its on the books,,,but cops pick and choose which to enforce...

i like what level eleven is saying,,,start doing peacekeeping,,,but i cant imagine its not peaceful in carmel,,, looks like a few too many cops putting a burden on taxpayers...ship them to indy,,,

The laws are on the books. They will be enforced. It's the police's JOB. It's what they do.

is there something else we could ask them to do??? like walk around and say hi to people and do community policing??? i guess im confused by your statement... are you saying its the job of the police to write tickets or to make a safe community????

IMO, arresting someone for driving without a license at 07:30 while driving to work to support a family qualifies as a "nonsense arrest".

Yeah right.
From the thousands of us that have been on the receiving end of how enforcement works , we don't know anything about it.

Because fewer cops makes Rambone happy

looks like its making the taxpayers happy,,, cops are very expensive,,,and they turn around and write tickets,,,taking even more money... have you never ever thought that we have too many cops??? have you never driven by a cop hiding in the bushes and thought,,,thats one too many??? your a cop so i guess not,,,but everyone says about lots of cop departments---theyre just looking for stuff to do...

if everyone knows that many departments are just looking for stuff to do,,,dont that mean that we could get them down to where everyone left has something good to do???

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah right.
From the thousands of us that have been on the receiving end of how enforcement works , we don't know anything about it.

Well, since you also are on the "recieving end" of electricity, tell me how it's routed to your home from the original source...

(I'm really hoping your not an electrician, or I'll have to eat that example)

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Exactly how long ago was this? I'll be honest, there seems like there's some pertinent details missing from this story. Now, I don't expect you recall your personal experiences for criticism. If that's they way things went down, you have my sympathy.

This happened in 1993 and there are no details missing other than the fact that I was pulled over for a burnt out headlight in the rain. My point in mentioning that fact is that I at least had them on unlike the roughly 80% of the other cars on the road (it wasn't law yet and there were no daytime running lights yet in 1993). Which brings to point another issue, why do LEOs only stop people for not using headlights when they FEEL like it? Why do people think daytime running lights are good enough that they don't have to turn their headlights on (tail lights don't light up unless the button is on)? The mere fact that you question the circumstances tells me that you know I got a shaft job but that doesn't change the fact that it happens and needs to be stopped. Whether that means taking the teeth away from the BS law or just eliminating it I don't know, but NO ONE should EVER have to go through that or be treated that way. So I'll let this example serve as proof that getting pulled over at 07:30 and arrested for having a suspended license is a BS nonsense arrest wasting jail space.

ETA: BTW, DWS w/prior is a CLASS A MISDEMEANOR!!!! WTF is that all about? Armed robbery can be cut to class a misdemeanor with alternate misdemeanor sentencing......And the sentencing guidelines prosecuting attorneys and judges are forced to adhere to are BS as well since there are no contingencies placed amongst them for charges that are the result of plea bargaining other charges away.

 

[Hotdoger]

Well, since you also are on the "recieving end" of electricity, tell me how it's routed to your home from the original source...

(I'm really hoping your not an electrician, or I'll have to eat that example)

Analogy would be good if I could not follow the power line route to and from my home.

Now if you want to discuss the police business you conduct over your cell phone, that is not recorded or accessable to the public then you would have a good point.

 

[Martin Draco]

I think there are surprisingly quite a few offenses that people go to jail for that they should get a summons rather than a night in lock up. A friend of mine was driving too fast about 2a.m. a while back and was arrested for something like wreckless driving and endangerment or something ridiculous like that. Granted he has a wise mouth on him so I'm sure that played a part. I was arrested for having a couple Vicodin with me that were prescribed to me but my script expired. I was told by the officer that an expired script is the same as no script and that I was being arrested for felony possesion of a controlled substance. Obviously if after 2 yrs. I still had some left, I don't have a drug problem, just a bad back. The officer then got a warrant to take blood. The reason he pulled me over was my plates were expired by 2 days. It was 1:30a.m. and I had just left a bar that he was hiding across the street. I live a mile from the bar and was pulled over on the corner of my street and when he breath tested I came up clean on the breath test. Within a few minute of being pulled over there were about 5 german sheapards inside my vehicle looking for drugs. I think I should have just gotten a summons and allowed to go home!

I am quite curious what the officer to citizen ratio is in areas of Hamilton County (esp. Carmel). It feels like some of these officer don't have much to do and some are overzealous.

I'm not bashing LEO's, but I think some of them need to relax a bit. I have met many great officers that weren't out to prove anything, just want to uphold the law.

This is an example of how some officers tend to be overzealous (this officer wasn't even on duty):
Young mother handcuffed at gunpoint by Carmel Police - 13 WTHR

 

[Kutnupe14]

This happened in 1993 and there are no details missing other than the fact that I was pulled over for a burnt out headlight in the rain. My point in mentioning that fact is that I at least had them on unlike the roughly 80% of the other cars on the road (it wasn't law yet and there were no daytime running lights yet in 1993). Which brings to point another issue, why do LEOs only stop people for not using headlights when they FEEL like it? Why do people think daytime running lights are good enough that they don't have to turn their headlights on (tail lights don't light up unless the button is on)? The mere fact that you question the circumstances tells me that you know I got a shaft job but that doesn't change the fact that it happens and needs to be stopped. Whether that means taking the teeth away from the BS law or just eliminating it I don't know, but NO ONE should EVER have to go through that or be treated that way. So I'll let this example serve as proof that getting pulled over at 07:30 and arrested for having a suspended license is a BS nonsense arrest wasting jail space.

ETA: BTW, DWS w/prior is a CLASS A MISDEMEANOR!!!! WTF is that all about? Armed robbery can be cut to class a misdemeanor with alternate misdemeanor sentencing......And the sentencing guidelines prosecuting attorneys and judges are forced to adhere to are BS as well since there are no contingencies placed amongst them for charges that are the result of plea bargaining other charges away.

With all due respect, the instance you recall happened 18 years ago. I can't speak on how suspensions were handled during that time. Perhaps, it was common practice in '93 to take DWS-Prior drivers into custody. And if it wasn't, why were you taken into custody on that day?

Point being, this thread is entitled "Stop Arresting People," and in my, significantly, more recent experiences, that has been exactly what has happened, in therms of DWS-Priors. It's difficult to use a 20 year old example and say that such still does happen.

My opinion, is that you certainly, by today's standards, got the "shaft." And even though I think that, you are hardly unable to avoid bearing, at least part, of the blame. You obviously knew, full well, that you were in violation of the law, and yet you still chose to drive. You were caught, not once.... at which time you would have been instructed to go to court and a judge would have advised you NOT to drive, but at least twice, in which you had to appear again.

As for the officer taking you into custody immediately, I have no idea why he did that. This is why I stated that there must be more to the story. There's no more kudos if he had just summonsed you over making you a custodial arrest. It would still count as an arrest no matter what. If you think you shouldn't have been arrested in either way, after your status was known to the officer. I would disagree. At that point, his hands were tied, and you would be forwarded to the courts in one form or another.

Again, If that's the full story, I would agree that it's a "nonsense" arrest. But give it occurred so 20 odd years ago, I don't think it can be applied to the discussion at hand. As your experience is no longer common practice.

 

[steveh_131]

Yes because cutting police is always the option. Only to see people cry when there was no one there to help.

Yes, the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be heard across the nation as the lawless begin to drive upwards of 65mph on the highways.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes, the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be heard across the nation as the lawless begin to drive upwards of 65mph on the highways.

Camden, NJ will be a great case study on this...

 

[Keyser Soze]

With all due respect, the instance you recall happened 18 years ago. I can't speak on how suspensions were handled during that time. Perhaps, it was common practice in '93 to take DWS-Prior drivers into custody. And if it wasn't, why were you taken into custody on that day?

Point being, this thread is entitled "Stop Arresting People," and in my, significantly, more recent experiences, that has been exactly what has happened, in therms of DWS-Priors. It's difficult to use a 20 year old example and say that such still does happen.

My opinion, is that you certainly, by today's standards, got the "shaft." And even though I think that, you are hardly unable to avoid bearing, at least part, of the blame. You obviously knew, full well, that you were in violation of the law, and yet you still chose to drive. You were caught, not once.... at which time you would have been instructed to go to court and a judge would have advised you NOT to drive, but at least twice, in which you had to appear again.

As for the officer taking you into custody immediately, I have no idea why he did that. This is why I stated that there must be more to the story. There's no more kudos if he had just summonsed you over making you a custodial arrest. It would still count as an arrest no matter what. If you think you shouldn't have been arrested in either way, after your status was known to the officer. I would disagree. At that point, his hands were tied, and you would be forwarded to the courts in one form or another.

Again, If that's the full story, I would agree that it's a "nonsense" arrest. But give it occurred so 20 odd years ago, I don't think it can be applied to the discussion at hand. As your experience is no longer common practice.

Driving while suspended prior is a class A. misdemeanor. In order to be driving while suspended prior at one point your drivers license was suspended at an infraction level. You were notified your license were suspended and got caught driving while suspended at the infraction level.

You continued to drive on a suspended license. The next time you were caught it became a misdemeanor. So its not really bull****. You cant keep driving without a license. Keep doing it and it will become a felony, habitual traffic offender.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Driving while suspended prior is a class A. misdemeanor. In order to be driving while suspended prior at one point your drivers license was suspended at an infraction level. You were notified your license were suspended and got caught driving while suspended at the infraction level.

You continued to drive on a suspended license. The next time you were caught it became a misdemeanor. So its not really bull****. You cant keep driving without a license. Keep doing it and it will become a felony, habitual traffic offender.

Don't know if you meant to quote me, but +1?

 

[mrjarrell]

Camden, NJ will be a great case study on this...

Is that the same Camden where a grand jury has subpoenaed all their personnel records back to 97, for their ongoing corruption investigation? The same Camden where the cops where shaking down coke dealers, so they'd get their cut of the proceeds? That Camden? I'd say the streets might actually get a little safer for the average Joe. Especially, if their government would respect their rights to own and carry defensive tools like guns.

 

[Hotdoger]

Camden, NJ will be a great case study on this...

You ever been to Camden?
I have.
Camden was a crap hole with all the police.
Think East St. Louis.

 

[Hotdoger]

Well, since you also are on the "recieving end" of electricity, tell me how it's routed to your home from the original source...

(I'm really hoping your not an electrician, or I'll have to eat that example)

You know lots of people get shocked because of incompetent electrical installers.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You ever been to Camden?
I have.
Camden was a crap hole with all the police.
Think East St. Louis.

Never been. Do you think thinks will get better there with half the police force being laid off?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Never been. Do you think thinks will get better there with half the police force being laid off?

Probably not, they'll be committing the same crimes just without the badge to keep them from getting in trouble for it. I go there frequently. I hate every part of New Jersey.