Stop Pointing Guns At Yourself

[SMiller]

I would have booted his ass from the class on the spot, stupid...

 

[SteveM4A1]

I have a beard, so this rule obviously doesn't apply to me.

 

[dudley0]

I don't think I would have ejected him from the class. Can't learn that way. Maybe it would have been better for the trainer to stop him, unload the gun, reholster and go to a different lane to work on the basics a bit.

If the guy started spewing crap then the day is over for him.

This was a fail for the trainer as well as the trainee, in my opinion.

 

[EPeter213]

I don't think I would have ejected him from the class. Can't learn that way. Maybe it would have been better for the trainer to stop him, unload the gun, reholster and go to a different lane to work on the basics a bit.

If the guy started spewing crap then the day is over for him.

This was a fail for the trainer as well as the trainee, in my opinion.

^^^^
I agree completely. IMO any sort of ND should mean you are done shooting until you have taken positive action to correct the cause. If I was in this class, and the guy wasn't taken out of the exercise, I'd be getting my money back and looking for a safer range.

 

[sporter]

1911 Check. Not so much as caring on how to draw a pistol, Check.

Not keeping his finger off the trigger, Check.

Sub par instruction and not a clean firing line, Check.

I blame the instructors as much as the students.

Most that call themselves instructors are a friggin joke.

 

[sporter]

There is good reasons why the serpa is banned from many training classes. It is not a good holster, and it is not safe to use a holster that is proven to not work if any muck gets in it.

As much as I think the Serpa is not a good holster for this reason.

In the slow motion of the video, he puts his finger back on the trigger (lack of trigger discipline).


As much as it pains me to say it

A competitive shooting environment (USPSA, IDPA, Multigun etc.) with competent range officers will build a much safer shooter (over time), than many of the training classes I have seen on video.

That of course is with a student/shooter who has some basic handling skills.

 

[Hookeye]

Tex shot himself because he was Tex.
Maybe a certain holster brought out the genetic superiority in him.
IMHO it did not have to do much.

 

[riverman67]

As much as I think the Serpa is not a good holster for this reason.

In the slow motion of the video, he puts his finger back on the trigger (lack of trigger discipline).


As much as it pains me to say it

A competitive shooting environment (USPSA, IDPA, Multigun etc.) with competent range officers will build a much safer shooter (over time), than many of the training classes I have seen on video.

That of course is with a student/shooter who has some basic handling skills.

I believe the sentiment is competition will get you killed in the streets

 

[sporter]

I believe the sentiment is competition will get you killed in the streets

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one little problem.

Never mind what I said!

 

[2A_Tom]

Best comment:

Publius Says:
December 10th, 2016 at 12:47 pmYou aren’t supposed to put your finger on the trigger or disengage the thumb safety until your sights are on target, and you also are not supposed to put your hand in front of the muzzle. This would have been a near miss with any firearm, let’s not get into the GLOCK! vs. 1911 stuff again. P.S. your gun sucks, you chose the wrong caliber, and you are most definitely holding it wrong.

 

[oldpink]

"Don't worry. It's not loaded."
-Terry Kath's last words

 

[Jeffforpresident]

I wonder if he's carried with a round in the chamber before, it almost looks like he goes to rack the slide with his left hand.

 

[femurphy77]

What was his left hand doing out there?

That's how he rolls Holmes!!! He's so badass tacticool that he'll blow his own hand off just to show he's not afraid to shoot yours! He's BADASS!!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder if he's carried with a round in the chamber before, it almost looks like he goes to rack the slide with his left hand.

If I were to guess, he's temporarily confused about the drill. It's a strong hand only drill, and he's not used to doing SHO shooting. He goes to establish grip, remembers it's not two handed, and then his gears jam in the OODA loop for a bit as he tries to figure out what's next. Add in a bit of social pressure of being in front of strangers being asked to perform a task. His subconscious is already running the gun, though, and doesn't care about the delay. Safety off, trigger pulled, bang.

I think about the famous BlackHawk Serpa incidents where many people inadvertently shot themselves (not just TEX) Would those firearms have discharged if they were a P226? Or a 92F? Or a DAO revolver?

Maybe. DA triggers are like snow tires during a snow storm. You can still crash, but you've got more margin for error. Force Science did some studies with trigger weight sensors and people subconsciously touching the trigger under simulated threats (everyone says they never touch the trigger, video shows different) and the heavier trigger would have prevented about 2/3 of that specific type of ND. I suspect a hammer fired gun would prevent a bit more when the gun is at eye level (ie, holding someone at gun point) because of the visual feedback of the hammer moving.

In short, there are at least 4 identifiable hardware components that contribute to the margin of safety. Length of pull, weight of pull, presence of safeties, and visual feedback. Software components of safe handling, stress inoculation, and identification of subconscious 'tics' like trigger checks are, ultimately of more value. The good news is you can have both, like being a driver with winter driver training AND snow tires facing the blizzard.

 

[2A_Tom]

holding someone at gun point.

I realize that your POV is police action, I just want to ask, under what circumstances is it ever legal for an unsworn civilian to hold anyone.

 

[sporter]

I realize that your POV is police action, I just want to ask, under what circumstances is it ever legal for an unsworn civilian to hold anyone.

Just use your CCW badge!

 

[sporter]

That's how he rolls Holmes!!! He's so badass tacticool that he'll blow his own hand off just to show he's not afraid to shoot yours! He's BADASS!!!!

You have to train to know how to blow your hand off. That way, when the tactical situation comes in real life you'll have the muscle memory already established to blow your hand off under pressure.
Fight like you train!

 

[GIJEW]

I realize that your POV is police action, I just want to ask, under what circumstances is it ever legal for an unsworn civilian to hold anyone.

I think the difference is in the definition of "hold". If some thug comes at you with a knife and you take aim and say "drop it, don't move", that's probably acting with extreme restraint let alone being legal. If he turns and runs, a LEO MIGHT get some lee-way over shooting a fleeting armed criminal. You won't.

 

[LPMan59]

Sure, sure, it looks cool, but it isn't cool. It's stupid, reckless and foolish.

Don't point a gun at yourself no matter what movie you watched.

SayUncle » This is why you should practice drawing a gun

i like the comment about it being a problem with the 1911 design. Lol

 

[LPMan59]

So was this a Tactical Response event?

No, they weren't shooting from a ditch or standing on top of anyone