Stop Pointing Guns At Yourself

[BehindBlueI's]

I realize that your POV is police action, I just want to ask, under what circumstances is it ever legal for an unsworn civilian to hold anyone.

You've shot, he's injured. You're unsure if he's out of the fight or not. It's not only legal but prudent to continue to hold him at gunpoint.

Keep in mind any citizen has arrest authority under Indiana Code in certain circumstances. It made the news last year when the group of bystanders held down the suspect in a knife-point robbery in the Kroger parking lot on the southside of Indianapolis. A home invader who was whacked in the face with a golf club and then held down by the residents until police arrived also comes to mind. In both instances, either intended victims or witnesses held a suspect in both the legal and physical sense and were in no legal jeopardy. Police are certainly in the position to hold or take someone at gunpoint significantly more often, but it does occur with the civilian population as well.

If he turns and runs, a LEO MIGHT get some lee-way over shooting a fleeting armed criminal. You won't.

While certainly not a best practice or even recommended, my experience has been civilians get more leeway locally. One, the media is less interested in you and the court of public opinion doesn't push for you to be tried. Two, regardless of what the law says the prosecutors are more apt to give you the benefit of the doubt when acting under stress. That said, I have personally investigated instances were the only thing that saved the shooter from prosecution was poor marksmanship. If they'd have hit someone, they would have been bought and paid for.

 

[2A_Tom]

Thanks.

I was thinking of a felony suspect that may just walk away from a citizen and basically dare him to shoot.

My understanding is once he were to turn and flee he is no longer fair game.

 

[ATM]

Thanks.

I was thinking of a felony suspect that may just walk away from a citizen and basically dare him to shoot.

My understanding is once he were to turn and flee he is no longer fair game.

He may no longer be reasonably considered a threat, but whether he's fair game or not depends on the nature of the dare.

If it was a "double-dog" dare, I'd have little choice but to ventilate him. I think any jury in the land would understand.

 

[2A_Tom]

You realize you are talking about snowflake land, right.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks.

I was thinking of a felony suspect that may just walk away from a citizen and basically dare him to shoot.

That's a potential outcome as well, and I've seen it occur. The important part is knowing when to let them go (almost always) and when to continue to engage (the remainder).

 

[Gabriel]

RO was negligent too. I'm flabbergasted that he was allowed to continue shooting after endangering others as well as himself. Did I hear "yeah, you're good" or something like that?

It also looked like they created an unsafe situation by having so many people moving in close proximity to each other. Unless the objective was to thin the herd...

I was about to argue with this sentiment. After a second look at the video, I agree that with students at this low level of competence they really need to run one at a time.

 

[2A_Tom]

In your opinion, If someone had committed a forcible felony, rape, attempted homicide, armed battery and the perpetrator has been disarmed but not incapacitated, I realize that an officer can shoot at the fleeing felon, but what about a regular citizen.

I do know the DA in my county would attempt to nail me to the wall, but what would happen in the real Indiana.

The red is to indicate the way it was before Ferguson.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In your opinion, If someone had committed a forcible felony, rape, attempted homicide, armed battery and the perpetrator has been disarmed but not incapacitated, I realize that an officer can shoot at the fleeing felon, but what about a regular citizen.

LE cannot shoot at a fleeing felon simply for being a fleeing felon. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/case.html

On the civilian side, I've seen it go both ways. The totality of the situation matters a lot. Shooting at someone who is fleeing is a significant risk, though, even with the friendliest of prosecutors.

 

[dudley0]

LE cannot shoot at a fleeing felon simply for being a fleeing felon.

If they could the TV show Cops would be a lot different.

 

[TheARfan]

Jeez, did the instructors not make sure those guys know how to draw their guns?

 

[Hookeye]

ABA standing committee on gun violence..........and Tex McIver.

Attorney says gun in his lap went off, fatally wounding his wife

 

[2A_Tom]

Yeah, I call BS.

 

[dudley0]

If snub nosed revolvers went off because of hitting a bump I imagine my ankle would be destroyed from all the rounds discharged when I walk and work.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Plot thickens on Atlanta attorney's "accidental shooting": Claud "Tex" McIver, Atlanta attorney who says he accidentally shot wife Diane McIver, owed her $350,000 - CBS News

 

[dudley0]

My wife didn't have cash on her and borrowed $20 from me.

Should I be worried?

 

[ATM]

My wife didn't have cash on her and borrowed $20 from me.

Should I be worried?

Probably not. I've lent more than that amount to folks simply to give them a reason to avoid me

...I don't consider those loans, but investments.

 

[Excalibur]

When drawing your gun, make sure you are wearing proper clothing and nothing gets in the way. Tuck in your shirt in some cases and when you draw the gun, remember the rules. Even if you are doing a drill and you've got a bad draw, learn to correct yourself on the fly so no harm happens because you will **** up in real life. Always practice

 

[Cree]

Jeez, did the instructors not make sure those guys know how to draw their guns?

You are on to a very valid point. So many of these fashionable training camps today take in students who want to learn - which is awesome - and have to sell them something other than another run at the basics. Unfortunately, not everyone in the class is at a point where they can say that they have mastered the basics. Having spent 17-years training police officers to shoot, I can say that everyone wants to run even when some of them have trouble walking. Now, having said all of this, AD and ND's happen. For anyone who has spent some time shooting USPSA or other similar sport, even the best have racked up a DQ from a match from an ND. I have a score sheet at home that has a large "DQ" written on it for having an ND...