Tax assessors, trespassing and leering into windows...

[Prometheus]

What time of day was it, Prom?

Did anyone call first? Letter sent?

Both times were between about 3 and 4 pm.

No one called first and no letters were sent. No cards or notices were left to indicate anyone had been out.

There could have been more times we aren't aware of. Cameras are going live so we'll have some idea going forward of future events even if no one is home.

 

[Henry]

Out of curiosity, when an unknown and unidentified person showed up unannounced in a nondescript vehicle, ignored the posted no trespass signs, and began walking around the property and peering into windows while your daughter was home alone, did she consider calling 911?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Both times were between about 3 and 4 pm.

No one called first and no letters were sent.

Reasonable time, but should have given notice.

Call and complain.

 

[CathyInBlue]

My mom was telling me how our home was appreciating in value because the amount she was being taxed each year was growing by thousands of dollars every year. Then, she died. I had to have the homestead appraised for probate purposes. It wasn't even half what she was paying taxes on. Being the new legal owner, I appealed for 2012 pay 2013 and again for 2013 pay 2014. I went out and found all of these similar homes around me that were assessed so much lower and the assessor just deflected with, "Oh, those are all rental properties, so they get assessed at a lower rate." In the end, the 3-man appeals panel sided with me and my appraisal, and now the assessor's office owes me a bunch of money.

And is it still "pointing a firearm" at a person if the firearm is part of a robotic armature that's always under intelligent control, even if it's artificial intelligence? How could that be parlayed into a charge of building a "man-trap"?

 

[amboy49]

About 6 years ago the residents of Union and Eagle Townships outside the unincorporated Town of Zionsville voted, through a referendum, to become part of the Town. This, the Eagle and Uinon Township residents felt, would apparently enable them to better control various zoning changes rather than relying on the Boone County Plan Commission with its county wide appointees. The Eagle/Union residents were told " not to worry, their property rights and land use would not be impacted nor would they experience any increase in property taxes (to support Town government services AND the ever increasing school corporation's insatiable need for more and more revenue.

Fast forward to 2014. As many know, there is a property tax moratorium re: any increase in property taxes on residential property (admittedly over simplified statement). However, there is no moratorium on increasing the assessed valuation of real estate. Hence, the assessor has now decided she can, and has, changed many of the former Eagle/Union Township properties (now included in the Town boundaries) from Agriculture to "excess residential." This effectively has increased the property tax liability, in many cases, over four or fivefold. You might well imagine how this has incensed many/most of those affected who own their genteel country homes and 10-15 acres of horse pasture.

The simple message to most is: if we can't get more money from the former Town taxpayers and there is a property tax moratorium lets just redefine (and reassess) those poor bastards out in what was the country and now is part of the Town ! (My analysis is offered without substantive proof albeit the premise is certainly plausible). It is true that the children of the residents of these former "rural" areas do attend the Zionsville school system(no change) but the rural residents have not received : city water, city sewer, trash pickup, nor police coverage which is still provided by the county sheriff.

I am not affected by this but a good friend who owns 60 acres certainly is. His acreage has a major power line ruining through it and easily more than 60% is located in a flood zone since a creeks runs through the middle of it. Thus all but 3 acres of the 60 cannot have any construction. Hence, his failure to understand how it is all now classified as "excess residential" resulting in a huge increase in annual property tax now due is reasonable. He is fighting it, but he's lost the first hearing and does not hold out much hope for a reversal.

 

[Prometheus]

Out of curiosity, when an unknown and unidentified person showed up unannounced in a nondescript vehicle, ignored the posted no trespass signs, and began walking around the property and peering into windows while your daughter was home alone, did she consider calling 911?

She did. She called me first and did note he had some sort of ID on a lanyard around his neck, clip board and tape measure. She was smart enough not to answer the door, called me immediately and while I assumed he was with the assessors office, I had her call my wife back on her phone while I called the assessors office and gave a description and they confirmed it was "their guy".

I did complain he should be driving a marked vehicle at the time but that was it. I wasn't expecting additional visits.

In any case, she wasn't exactly alone... the 97# Rott scared the crap out of the guy apparently just before he rang the door bell. Dog freaked out a second or two before he rang. Weird, usually she gives more notice, must have been sleeping good, lol.

I do wonder, if one of these idiots is roaming my property and I don't know it and let the dog out and she eats them, am I liable? My drive way is nearly 500 feet long with the curves. It's about 450' strait line off of the road to my front door. If some one ignores the 2 no trespassing signs (one at the start of the drive way and another at a curve 1/2 way down) and the BEWARE OF DOG signs (2), how would it not be their fault at that point?

 

[CathyInBlue]

If some one ignores the 2 no trespassing signs (one at the start of the drive way and another at a curve 1/2 way down) and the BEWARE OF DOG signs (2), how would it not be their fault at that point?

Simple, the fact that they are your betters and you're merely a bumpkin proves them right and superior to any claim of property "ownership" you could possibly construct. The fact that the law itself states they have to give prior notice specificly to prevent just such a scenario as you describe is a mere detail and unimportant.

 

[Henry]

FWIW, 8' is generally the minimum recommended depth to be beyond the range of common heat sensing equipment.

 

[Prometheus]

Simple, the fact that they are your betters and you're merely a bumpkin proves them right and superior to any claim of property "ownership" you could possibly construct. The fact that the law itself states they have to give prior notice specificly to prevent just such a scenario as you describe is a mere detail and unimportant.

It'd be funny, if it weren't so true.

 

[Indy317]

I had to fight with ours as they had our wood stoves listed a fireplaces due to our masonry chimney. They are taxed differently and fireplaces are taxed more. .....they were out in the last year or two and reassessed and decided my basement is now 100% finished even though it is a painted concrete floor and only half of it is actually drywalled and used as daily living space. The rest is concrete walls and laundry/furnace/hot water heater, etc. area.

Thanks for this information. I have a wood stove insert and my masonry chimney has been torn out to be below the roof line due to a flashing leak. I had a stainless steel pipe chimney installed instead. I might look into this. However, I likely won't push it as my bathrooms were recently remodeled and they would likely ding me on that. I keep all windows blocked. I like my privacy and don't want people snooping into my home. I know others sometimes view this as odd behavior, but the only way I would leave a window open is if I had almost nothing in the room and we rarely used the room.

 

[Indy317]

This time they were peering into my barn windows, daughter said the car they parked out front had a assessors office seal thing on the door... again no notice they had been on my property poking around, what gives?

FYI I have no trespassing signs posted and the driveway is 450' long. If they were just coming out to (re)measure, fine whatever. Put looking into windows crosses the line IMO.

What gives is that they are trying to nickle and dime you as much as they can. My assessment people are ridiculous. Soon after the change, they magically placed my mini-barn which had been included for years (and likely decades) under the category that is taxed at 1% into the 3% category. So I questioned that, not knowing what it was. At first, they didn't know what it was and they changed it back. Then it happened again and this time the actual assessor called me and explained that the mini-barn is considered other property and thus taxed at the 3% level. What people don't realize is that the other property category could easily include any and all personal property. This was a warning put out by some during the whole change. There was nothing from stopping them from adding up the value of your three or four flat screen TVs, your high end leather furniture, your vehicles, etc.. I don't know if any counties are tagging boats, trailers, RVs, etc., but unless the law is written to exclude those, then that might be what they are looking for. Also, my sheet has an effective date that the computer system uses to calculate my AV. The date starts off at the year the home is constructed. However, if permits are pulled for remodeling work, additions, etc., this number can be adjusted in some manner. If you have a twenty year old bathroom and you gut it and put brand new stuff in it, they consider that an improvement that ups the value of the home a bit, so they were likely trying to see if you had a newer kitchen, new flooring, etc., especially if your home is older.

 

[tenring]

Couple of years ago, I was out front of the house re-doing the stones on the walk when a man and woman came up and introduced themselves as property tax re-assessment folk. As I stood up, re-adjusted the pistol on my hip, I informed them that they were misinformed as we had already been re-assessed and that the papers from the county were lying on the dining room table if they wanted to see it. The guy said that he wasn't aware of that and he was there to re-assess the house. No you are not was my reply, and I have no idea what the hell was going on, but as far as I was concerned you are not welcome with your interpretation and need to leave. He said he had a job to do, and I gave him the number of the Sheriffs he could call to have a Deputy come out and I would show him the paper work, now leave! Woman was smiling, and man seemed clueless as what to do next, then both of them left. Never heard anymore about it.

 

[dieselrealtor]

I have had limited first hand experience with them, but the experience I had was an appraiser who's skills were extremely limited. He couldn't make it in the market as an appraiser so he got a job working for the county.

After my brief meeting with him I had a greater understanding as to why so many properties had inaccurate assessed values.

 

[AA&E]

Yeah, and doing that will likely land your ass in jail. That assessor WILL call the cops and they will arrest you for setting booby traps that could maim or kill. This is a really dumb idea.

It's a blank. Shotgun blanks are not likely to harm or maim. Plastic hulls, paper wads, minimal charged.

 

[AA&E]

Do you know who Brandon Lee is?

Did you ever watch Cover Up the television series on CBS? Do you know why you will never see a reunion show?

That was caused (in both instances) where the end crimp of the blank case tore loose and propelled down the barrel and into the victim. Shotgun blanks have nothing crimped on the end to break off, and are plastic hulled. Hollywood no longer utilizes real weapons with blank rounds for this reason, and has moved onto specifically manufactured blank firing weapons with incomplete barrels.

 

[rhino]

Do you know who Brandon Lee is?

Did you ever watch Cover Up the television series on CBS? Do you know why you will never see a reunion show?

John Erik Hexum.

Some people don't understand what can happen with "blanks." I don't think they know about the "bang sticks" used by divers on sharks that use .38spl or 12ga blanks, nor are the aware what happens with a gunshot wound when the muzzle is in contact causing the expanding gases to do much more damage than the projectile.

 

[Henry]

John Erik Hexum.

Some people don't understand what can happen with "blanks." I don't think they know about the "bang sticks" used by divers on sharks that use .38spl or 12ga blanks, nor are the aware what happens with a gunshot wound when the muzzle is in contact causing the expanding gases to do much more damage than the projectile.

True.

Also, it has nothing to do with the device and set up as referenced above.

 

[lizerdking]

I happen to have a close relationship with a county assessor, and a few of the deputy assessors as well.

They do not have to provide notice, they can come on your property and measure during a reasonable time to do so. They can peer in your windows to get an estimated build/finish quality of the home if you don't answer let them in, IE, do you have a finished basement/rec room/unfinished/etc...


People tend to get hung up on so many little things that don't affect their value, "That shed isn't worth 500$, it's old and needs a new roof, it's worth 200$ tops!". which equates to 300$ of their total assessment or 3$ a year on their taxes.


Indiana went to market value assessment at the time they went to the 1%, 2%, 3% cap values. Effectively raising values while lowering the percentages, this worked out in the states favor overall. Keep in mind the folks that work there are just trying to assess fairly and equally across the county they are responsible for, don't give them a hard time for doing their job. The guy peering in your windows was trying to see if was a high end finish or low end finish on the home, get an idea of build quality, and possibly even reduce your value so that you were fairly assessed.

Don't like your assessment? Ask a Realtor to pull comp values in your area, they have to be valid sales.. IE fairly recent sales that weren't foreclosures or extreme outliers, maybe the home values in the area went down.... Make sure your homestead is in place, and if you have excess acreage plant a crop and get it changed to Ag land.

Taxes suck, don't take it out on the county employee, use your vote in the next election.

 

[CathyInBlue]

They do not have to provide notice, they can come on your property and measure during a reasonable time to do so. They can peer in your windows to get an estimated build/finish quality of the home if you don't answer let them in, IE, do you have a finished basement/rec room/unfinished/etc...

Evidence of such claim?

Any intruder/trespasser may be freely and ruthlessly scared ****less to make them leave, provided reasonable efforts have been made to make their intrusion/trespass the obvious result of a concerted effort on their part. If an intruder/trespasser can accidentally or inadvertently intrude/trespass, then no, shotgun blank tripwires would not be warranted. If you have a fence and a gate and seclusion, and yet someone chooses to circumvent your security devices to intrude/trespass, they get the **** scared out of them that they deserve, without regard to any claims they may be able to make of official government purpose for the intrusion. This is why those laws posted up-thread make reference to contacting the owners prior to inspection, and as mentioned, if inspection is impossible for any reason, they are fully capable of using aerial photography to make estimates. Provided those estimates are reasonable and fair, there's no reason for them to be allowed on the property.

That said, care should be taken so that scare devices do not actually have any potential to actually injure. If that potential exists for any given device, then, I think charges of mantrapping could be warranted for that device's use. A 12 ga blank shell would have to be mounted such that there would be no possibility of it being turned to point at the person tripping it off. Likewise, the device that houses the 12 ga blank shell cannot possibly be replaced by an actual projectile shell.

 

[Tynimiller]

Okay, first and foremost allow me to attempt to bring some understanding to the situation as to the reasons local township or county assessors would be visiting your property for assessment purposes. I used to work for the county assessor in the county I grew up in until last September. I know work for a private contractor who works with local county/township government (assessor's offices) providing them valuation services in their appeal processes (when disagreement over what is fair market value of a property is filed by a taxpayer or tax rep on their behalf). With both my past employment and my current I am familiar with assessing offices and the things they have to do in order to hopefully capture proper valuations on properties.

I will stress I work with quite possibly two of the most well ran and professional acting offices, which strive and many times go above and beyond what they have to do in service to their local tax payers and land owners. However, I know first hand not all offices have knowledgeable or fully capable people and practices/actions show this lack of ability.

As for why a local assessing employee would be visiting your property:

-Permit taken out for new structure or sufficient updates requiring a data change that would justify an increase or decrease in assessed value (demo). Many areas the building departments work hand in hand with the Assessors to make the process as efficient and uniform across the tax base as much as possible. In an effort to make no assumptions to sizes, quality of construction or other things many offices will do a field visit instead of "if their office has it" using GIS imagery for measurements.

-New sale of the property. A new sale requires the office to verify the data on the Property Record Card to make sure nothing has changed either in a positive value influence or a negative. This is needed because of the vast amount of changes or updates or demos which can go unlogged with a permit or unreported to the assessing office.

-Request by taxpayer...pretty self explanatory.

-Reassessment. This is the most common one especially with the General Assembly passing that now counties/townships in our state must do a cyclical reassessment (re-analysis) of ALL parcels in a 4 year period in their jurisdiction (25% one year, 25% another year and so on). This is to ensure discrepencies can be caught and the data is as accurate as possible. In order to properly assess a property whether an assessor or an appraisor you must have accurate data. The default cost approach the states use which is than trended relies on this data even more so. This is most likely the case the OP is dealing with....while many counties (I know Elkhart does) send out notices of visits upcoming to the most recent mailing address on record with the county, they technically don't have to atleast I don't think so, but it is encouraged. If the land is posted/gated or blocked off by any means they cannot go around this to my understanding, nor can the require entry into any structure...that will greatly limit the amount of drawn assumptions but it cannot be forced. As for notifying taxpayers some assessors do the mailers like I've stated, but nearly all run a notice in the local papers notifying taxpayers of the visits.

Trust me, most of these field people are just common everyday people (AND YES THEY PAY THE SAME TAXES) just attempting to do their jobs as instructed and then go home each day. Your daughters handled it exactly as they should have, and I know others and myself when I did field work didn't like it when children would answer the door...made me feel uneasy for their sake and would just tell them to close the door and get their parents if their home.

If you own a home or a business and dislike your assessment you have the right to file an appeal within the proper time frames, IT IS YOUR RIGHT! My business can even assist you in this and even represent you if needed, but we cannot take contracts currently in Elkhart or Porter county as we currently assist both in chasing fair market value to their taxpayers that file appeals.

I saw the caps mentioned...and the assumptions assessors are just hiking assessments to make up for them. This SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING if it is. Indiana is a market value state which means if your assessment can be proven with market evidence to be overstated it is justified that a reduction be sought and done by the county (happens a lot). Just know if you do appeal your assessment it does open the window for the assessment to increase...while many of the assessors I've worked with refuse to "punish" taxpayers in atleast the year under appeal MANY do if it is justified.