Terrorists win at the Murat

[Liberty Sanders]

Went to the Murat this evening for the Steve Martin/Martin Short performance.

I've been there a number of times before and was surprised to encounter a bottleneck in the foyer. They had full blown airport style metal detectors and wanding going on. A guy was hollering for people to completely empty their pockets and open all bags and purses.

As I approached the metal detector a discreet display of my badge caused the security man to raise his eyes in a questioning manner and point to his hip. My nod of affirmation led to my being waved around the equipment where I made myself known to a sheriff's deputy observing the action. He shook my hand and seemed genuinely glad that I would be among the audience for the evening, my obvious geezerly status notwithstanding.

I do not know the Murat's gun policy as the issue has never come up nor did I inquire of the deputy but I had the distinct impression that a LTCH alone would not have gained me entry. I could be mistaken on this. I checked the website and did not find the issue addressed.

Future patrons of the venue should consider calling them to ascertain the true state of affairs.

 

[MCgrease08]

I can all but guarantee a LTCH only would not have afforded you the same privilege of being able to carry.

Nearly all music and sports venues are going the full metal detector route which is very sad. Not just for the fact that people are disarmed, but for how much time it adds to the entry process.

It creates a soft targets inside the venue, and an even softer target up front, with hundreds of people crammed together with no place to go.

Add to all of this, that the process ineffective and mostly for show. It's to create the illusion of safety.

For example, last week I saw a show in Columbus Ohio. They had metal detectors. I emptied my pockets and walked through with everything from my pockets in my hands. I never placed them in a tray or anything like that.

Of course the metal detector beeped and I held up my hands to show the guy my keys. He said, "you're not supposed to walk through with the metal stuff in your hands." (Duh) But he never did any kind of secondary inspection or even make me walk through again. I could have had a shotgun and two katanas stuffed in my pant legs for all he knew.

It's pure security theater, plain and simple.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I can all but guarantee a LTCH only would not have afforded you the same privilege of being able to carry.

Nearly all music and sports venues are going the full metal detector route which is very sad. Not just for the fact that people are disarmed, but for how much time it adds to the entry process.

It creates a soft targets inside the venue, and an even softer target up front, with hundreds of people crammed together with no place to go.

Add to all of this, that the process ineffective and mostly for show. It's to create the illusion of safety.

For example, last week I saw a show in Columbus Ohio. They had metal detectors. I emptied my pockets and walked through with everything from my pockets in my hands. I never placed them in a tray or anything like that.

Of course the metal detector beeped and I held up my hands to show the guy my keys. He said, "you're not supposed to walk through with the metal stuff in your hands." (Duh) But he never did any kind of secondary inspection or even make me walk through again. I could have had a shotgun and two katanas stuffed in my pant legs for all he knew.

It's pure security theater, plain and simple.

Looks like its time to invest in a good ol boy belt buckle and some thunderwear. (or simply not go to shows/games/etc)

I've seen numerous cases of ST where they are too lazy to actually screen a beeper.. "oh, yeah, I see its probably your belt buckle the size of a saucer. Go on through because Im too lazy/line too long to make you take off your belt and walk back through. Oh wait, I'll wand you... yep, it only goes off when I cover your groin area. Definitely the buckle. Move along"

 

[Outlaw]

Ran into a similar situation at bankers life for boy scout night tonight. At the present time my foot is broken and have to wear a boot. Needless to say they didn't check my boot or even make me lift up that pant leg. Good intentions (in their mind), terrible idea and deplorable follow through.

I wish everyone could see the illogical process of disarmament.

 

[yepthatsme]

The problem that I have with this is, it is probably all about avoiding law suits should a mass shooting occur and not about safety. This type of procedure doesn't make much sense to me because if someone was determined on shooting as many people as possible at this type of event, he would just shoot everyone at the bottlenecked line before the detectors. And, he would probably have a larger kill count than he would if he were to shoot at everyone inside the theatre. This would be the perfect situation for a mass shooting, everyone lined up and their attention would be on preparing for the detectors. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel or blowing fish up in a barrel.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The problem that I have with this is, it is probably all about avoiding law suits should a mass shooting occur and not about safety. This type of procedure doesn't make much sense to me because if someone was determined on shooting as many people as possible at this type of event, he would just shoot everyone at the bottlenecked line before the detectors. And, he would probably have a larger kill count than he would if he were to shoot at everyone inside the theatre. This would be the perfect situation for a mass shooting, everyone lined up and their attention would be on preparing for the detectors. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel or blowing fish up in a barrel.

Exactly. THAT is where the body count will be if they ever have the balls to try to attack a venue here in the US. They dont NEED to get into the stadium. There are lots of victims standing around waiting in the lines for the metal detectors.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know the last time you were there, but it MAY not be related to terrorism worries. Last year they had shots fired in the building during the let off from a show. Nobody was hit and it apparently didn't make the news, as I don't see anything come up with a Google search. That may have been the motivator for tighter security.

I'm going from memory, but maybe late summer of 2014? I was working ERG in uniform that night and we got called over there to help move the crowd out. They all run together, though, so I won't swear to the time frame.

 

[croy]

Personally I don't think a badge should allow you to carry a firearm with you to where someone with a normal LTCH cannot. I've seen a lot of cops that don't know anything about guns. There is obviously an exception to this with some of the members we have here.

 

[vitamink]

The thought process, as it was explained to me, is that cops are trained on firearms, use of force, and the law every year. Anyone can get an Ltch and go buy a highpoint load a mag and never go to the range. Everyone knows a cop who can't tell an AK from an AR, but you know he's shot his gun, and passed some sort of a qualification or he couldn't be one. Though I am against .gov regulation of this, I think private businesses would be more apt to allow guns if a ltch meant you were a proper person who is also trained on the law, shot the gun you're carrying, made all your hits in the head or center mass, and not carrying a magazine of FMJ for defensive ammo.

to the OP, honestly I'm shocked they let you in. They were so anti gun they wouldn't let uniformed officers inside. That was 10 years ago. Glad they're swinging back towards logic. They've had a lot of shootings in their no guns allowed venue.

 

[Goodcat]

In high school, they took bomb threats very seriously. Immediately when one was called in, they'd want hordes of folks to exit the school and pack them selves like sardines in the enclosed cement cavity under the stadium. Always made sense that a luinitic could place a bomb there, and then call in a bomb threat for maximum damage so the administration would stuff bodies all around the bomb as the safety response.

 

[NHT3]

I'm wondering if it's stated when you buy tickets that it is a "people that are qualified" to wield a firearm event and a LTCH is not acceptable to qualify you. If I were to pay for admission to an event and then frisked at the door and turned away I would, of course expect a prompt refund.
Being at the range as often as I am I do see the people that just buy a pistol, load it up and go merrily on their way, assured in their own mind that they are completely qualified and safe. Some of us do train regularly and I know that some law enforcement people fire only once a year when the are forced to qualify. How to sort the two out is the issue and I don't see any possible way to do it. If a venue is going to demand that I disarm and leave the security of me and my family in their, more than likely, incapable hands I need to know in advance so I can spend my $$$ elsewhere.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock Armorer-M&P Armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[halfmileharry]

I'm wondering if it's stated when you buy tickets that it is a "people that are qualified" to wield a firearm event and a LTCH is not acceptable to qualify you. If I were to pay for admission to an event and then frisked at the door and turned away I would, of course expect a prompt refund.
Being at the range as often as I am I do see the people that just buy a pistol, load it up and go merrily on their way, assured in their own mind that they are completely qualified and safe. Some of us do train regularly and I know that some law enforcement people fire only once a year when the are forced to qualify. How to sort the two out is the issue and I don't see any possible way to do it. If a venue is going to demand that I disarm and leave the security of me and my family in their, more than likely, incapable hands I need to know in advance so I can spend my $$$ elsewhere.
[FONT=&]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&]-- [/FONT][FONT=&]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock Armorer-M&P Armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&] /[/FONT][FONT=&] RSO[/FONT]

This!
I adopted this policy for myself a couple of years ago. IF I can't keep the capability to defend myself and who is with me then I do NOT go or spend my money there.

 

[OutdoorDad]

I'm wondering if it's stated when you buy tickets that it is a "people that are qualified" to wield a firearm event and a LTCH is not acceptable to qualify you. If I were to pay for admission to an event and then frisked at the door and turned away I would, of course expect a prompt refund.
Being at the range as often as I am I do see the people that just buy a pistol, load it up and go merrily on their way, assured in their own mind that they are completely qualified and safe. Some of us do train regularly and I know that some law enforcement people fire only once a year when the are forced to qualify. How to sort the two out is the issue and I don't see any possible way to do it. If a venue is going to demand that I disarm and leave the security of me and my family in their, more than likely, incapable hands I need to know in advance so I can spend my $$$ elsewhere.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock Armorer-M&P Armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

my ticket is a contract to gain entry to a venue for a specific event.

If there are special conditions to that contract, they should be communicated clearly prior to purchase.

After paying for parking and walking up to the venue is not when I should first learn of their additional expectations.

And no, posting crap on a website doesn't work.

 

[churchmouse]

The terrorists had one by noon on 9/11. We as a country will be forever changed.

 

[Thegeek]

It is for this purpose alone that I'd like to be a reserve officer. Or show them an insulin pump. There are lots of ways to get past the metal detector. A patdown, not so much.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

The problem that I have with this is, it is probably all about avoiding law suits should a mass shooting occur and not about safety. This type of procedure doesn't make much sense to me because if someone was determined on shooting as many people as possible at this type of event, he would just shoot everyone at the bottlenecked line before the detectors. And, he would probably have a larger kill count than he would if he were to shoot at everyone inside the theatre. This would be the perfect situation for a mass shooting, everyone lined up and their attention would be on preparing for the detectors. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel or blowing fish up in a barrel.

Great minds think alike.

As I was watching this display of damned silliness it was apparent that they were creating an ideal environment for any manner of anti-social behavior. Had the SHTF at that moment there would have been precious little that I or any other well-intentioned or properly equipped individual could have done to safely intervene.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Personally I don't think a badge should allow you to carry a firearm with you to where someone with a normal LTCH cannot. I've seen a lot of cops that don't know anything about guns. There is obviously an exception to this with some of the members we have here.

Anyone who knows me here is aware that I agree with you 100% on this point.

However, last night my 1911 was where it belonged performing the function for which is was designed and not sitting impotent in my car where it was available for theft and helping no one.

I regard this as a positive even though my personal preference would be knowing that the audience also included heeled INGOers. If I could make this happen I would.

 

[printcraft]

Well, some place else to not spend my money.

 

[Indynic]

In high school, they took bomb threats very seriously. Immediately when one was called in, they'd want hordes of folks to exit the school and pack them selves like sardines in the enclosed cement cavity under the stadium. Always made sense that a luinitic could place a bomb there, and then call in a bomb threat for maximum damage so the administration would stuff bodies all around the bomb as the safety response.

Geez, how often were bomb threats called into your high school? You make it sound like a regular occurence...

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I don't know the last time you were there, but it MAY not be related to terrorism worries. Last year they had shots fired in the building during the let off from a show. Nobody was hit and it apparently didn't make the news, as I don't see anything come up with a Google search. That may have been the motivator for tighter security.

I'm going from memory, but maybe late summer of 2014? I was working ERG in uniform that night and we got called over there to help move the crowd out. They all run together, though, so I won't swear to the time frame.

Happens regularly during certain summer celebrations...