The Nuclear Iran Situation

[Kutnupe14]

More sanctions were added to Iran

Says who?

 

[BugI02]

The bigger question is how are we underestimating their tracking abilities. At least superficially, it looks like they can reliable "see" planes that we didn't really think they could. (The 35 passenger plane is different, that's probably AWACS of some sort.)

Also, our history includes episodes in which we lost military personnel to attacks by potential foes (and sometimes allies) and we didn't respond very forcefully, if at all.

International relations is complicated.

If you're speaking about the drones in use, TL, everybody can see them and it's a well known problem. They have a huge radar signature, almost no stealth capability vis a vis radar and are slow and of limited tactical maneuverability. We have low observability drones but they are largely experimental with few operational examples

https://www.defenseone.com/technolo...-its-way-losing-drone/157901/?oref=d-topstory
How the Pentagon Nickel-and-Dimed Its Way Into Losing a Drone

 

[ArcadiaGP]

President Obama made a desperate and terrible deal with Iran - Gave them 150 Billion Dollars plus I.8 Billion Dollars in CASH! Iran was in big trouble and he bailed them out. Gave them a free path to Nuclear Weapons, and SOON. Instead of saying thank you, Iran yelled Death to America. I terminated deal, which was not even ratified by Congress, and imposed strong sanctions. They are a much weakened nation today than at the beginning of my Presidency, when they were causing major problems throughout the Middle East. Now they are Bust!

On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!

This guy

 

[BugI02]

No one has mentioned the Israeli playbook - warn them, pop a few planes up and get them to turn on all the radars. Map the threat both geographically and EM spectrum-wise and then plan the real strike

 

[printcraft]

This guy

So I guess the media script is going to have to be “*****” on Trump now
instead of “insane warmonger” if he would have launched.

You guys figured out the shtick yet?

 

[Kutnupe14]

This guy

That was the point I was making. The CiC said it, but the Treasury hasn't made any announcements of such yet.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So I guess the media script is going to have to be “*****” on Trump now
instead of “insane warmonger” if he would have launched.

You guys figured out the shtick yet?

What do you think the president's response to this should be Printcraft? Do you think the doing of the drone was an unintentional mistake by the Iranians, as the president has said?

 

[printcraft]

Glass parking lot definitely.

 

[T.Lex]

Um.... this may seem like an odd question, but why did he have to ask how many would die AFTER we were "cocked and loaded" approximately 10 minutes before we were ready to strike? I mean, wouldn't that figure into the discussions BEFORE getting hundreds of our service members geared up for warfighting?

So he's admitting he got cold feet when he realized there might be loss of life... now.

Meow.

 

[BugI02]

Or perhaps he actually let the military plan the strike, and they decided what and how many assets would need to be 'degraded' and then when all the particulars were considered he decided that it really wasn't proportional and killing some of them would result in a lethal escalation that perhaps wasn't worth it

Like print craft says; damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he attacks them he's a reckless war-monger putting Americans in harm's way and if he doesn't he's showing 'weakness' (unlike, say, signing off on a do-nothing agreement with them and giving them pallets of cash while allowing them unfettered access to oil markets)

I'm not surprised to see Team Sanctimony playing this it way, I'm just surprised how quickly the local membership abandons their caution about hasty decisions on military involvement for another crack at Trump - and Iran hasn't even killed any celebrity 'journalists' yet

 

[Kutnupe14]

Or perhaps he actually let the military plan the strike, and they decided what and how many assets would need to be 'degraded' and then when all the particulars were considered he decided that it really wasn't proportional and killing some of them would result in a lethal escalation that perhaps wasn't worth it

Like print craft says; damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he attacks them he's a reckless war-monger putting Americans in harm's way and if he doesn't he's showing 'weakness' (unlike, say, signing off on a do-nothing agreement with them and giving them pallets of cash while allowing them unfettered access to oil markets)

I'm not surprised to see Team Sanctimony playing this it way, I'm just surprised how quickly the local membership abandons their caution about hasty decisions on military involvement for another crack at Trump - and Iran hasn't even killed any celebrity 'journalists' yet

Well, it would help if he put together reasonable messaging. As it stands, he's looking weak and adding to confusion in how Iran should be dealt with. He ended the Iran Deal, which all parties said Iran was complying with. Since that deal was trashed, Iran has attacked oil tankers (allegedly), upping enrichment, proxies sending rocket attacks into Iraq, and downed one of our drones.

 

[BugI02]

Was the Iran deal voted on and ratified by congress? Or was it just another EO without the consent of the governed?

You and I both know the answer to that, and it's hilarious to hear you talk about reasonable messaging and then go on to list

Reasonable messaging: 'He ended the Iran Deal'

Reasonable messaging???: 'Iran has attacked oil tankers (allegedly), upping enrichment, proxies sending rocket attacks into Iraq, and downed one of our drones.'

Does that really look to you like Trump is the one with a problem with 'reasonable' messaging?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Um.... this may seem like an odd question, but why did he have to ask how many would die AFTER we were "cocked and loaded" approximately 10 minutes before we were ready to strike? I mean, wouldn't that figure into the discussions BEFORE getting hundreds of our service members geared up for warfighting?

So he's admitting he got cold feet when he realized there might be loss of life... now.

Meow.

So I guess it would have been better had he not cared at all and killed 150 people without ever raising the question? And as a gun owner, aren’t we always “cocked and loaded”?

Trump launches missile, he’s a murderer that killed innocent people.

Trump doesnt launch missile, he’s a *****.

Theres a difference in being critical of somebody, and constantly looking for something to have issue with.

Also, I’m glad it got the service members geared and ready. Good to stay on your toes and know it isn’t a training exercise. Good way to work out a few real time kinks without casualties.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

For some reason I knew the ones being critical of trump would have toted the same line regardless which actions he took

 

[BugI02]

Iran is exhibiting exactly the type of behavior you decry (rightfully) when the DPRK exhibits it. 'Give us what we want or you'll be sorry'

What ever happened to Kutsistency?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BugI02 again.

Ya but our hero Obama didn’t make deals with NK, so there’s a personal attachment to Iran

 

[BugI02]

And our 'allies' (France, UK, Germany) - who exhibit the same fervor to mortgage their energy security to the likes of Iran (oil) that they do with the likes of Putin (NG) - as well as our frenemies (China, Russia) favor the agreement in the usual self-serving way, too

What's not to love?

 

[BugI02]

You'd think the peoples that were almost pwned by the Nazis and then the Soviets would be a bit more cautious about selling themselves down the river again

 

[jamil]

What do you think the president's response to this should be Printcraft? Do you think the doing of the drone was an unintentional mistake by the Iranians, as the president has said?

If he was ready to go, but then decided not to because the strike they had planned wasn't proportionate to the offense, it's pretty clear that he does not believe it was an unintentional mistake. So why did he say that? He says a lot of stuff that defies understanding. Whatever the reason, it does not appear to me that he believes it was unintentional.

 

[jamil]

Um.... this may seem like an odd question, but why did he have to ask how many would die AFTER we were "cocked and loaded" approximately 10 minutes before we were ready to strike? I mean, wouldn't that figure into the discussions BEFORE getting hundreds of our service members geared up for warfighting?

So he's admitting he got cold feet when he realized there might be loss of life... now.

Meow.

I don't think that was the reason why he called it off. But it's not apparent what the real reason is.