Trading for guns from someone out of state

[JettaKnight]

Aside from the legal questions. Lets say the guns for boat trade happens at 2PM on a Sunday afternoon on the property of the Indiana resident. The guy drives away with the boat and the new owner of the guns admires and handles and maybe even shoots his new guns.

Does it really make sense to you that the new owner of the guns report to an FFL Monday morning at 8AM to determine that he is legally able to possess these guns? Or maybe he should say to the person that is trying to trade him the guns, No, I can't possess these guns until the federal government advises that I am legal to own these guns.

The 4473 does not transfer an individual firearm from one owner to another. It merely verifies that the new owner of a firearm is not prohibited from possessing a firearm.

I choose to not lick anybody's boots.....But I still don't think the transferee has to jump through these hoops....

I think you're misinterpreting the transfer process. It's not simply to determine if the new own is able to legally possess the firearm. The Form 4473 is required for record keeping purposes because it is a interstate transfer - it doesn't matter how the firearm arrived or where the transfer took place. The important fact is that the transferee and transferer live in two different states.

Someone else should chime in if I'm wrong, but the transfer process requires the dealer to log the firearm into his bound book and then immediately back out, thus meeting the rules set out by the BATFE. The Form 4473 and NICS background check would be, in this case, a formality that, while we agree is not pragmatically necessary, a legal requirement.

Furthermore, in the example you presented, the receiver of the firearm took possession before this process was completed, thus being in violation. I'm not sure how a dealer would feel if the receiver showed up with gun in hand and said, "I got this gun from a guy in AR, who's long gone, transfer it to me."


And to the OP, you mentioned meeting half way - well one option is to meet at a gun shop and examine the gun. When you're satisfied, buy the gun and have that dealer ship the firearm to your dealer in IN where the transfer will actually occur. I'm sure the cost of shipping wouldn't exceed the cost of gas on that trip!

 

[JettaKnight]

Thanks for starting this thread... very interesting points.

I think the OP was looking for a quick answer, but this ended up being a big legal debate - well, we all benefit from understanding the draconian guns laws of the federal govt.

I hate how the government wants to be involved in so many ways, however, if that involvement could hinder someone from shooting up a school, I don't mind it much. The obvious downside is that uncle Sam is not fool proof in approving firearms sales (perhaps foolish though), and it ends up being a hassle for all of us that actually obey the laws.
With that said, I LOVE Indiana's gun laws compared to most of our neighboring states!!

Unfortunately, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A lot (all?) of these laws were intended to stop gun violence and we here know that hasn't happened. Does laws concerning interstate firearm sells help curb abuse of firearms? I doubt it. Given the proliferation of firearms in the US the only need for buying firearms over state lines is for collectors or enthusiast who are looking for something specific (or a good deal). What it does offer the feds is another charge they can slap on a gangbanger in NYC who uses a gun from VA to shoot up a b-ball court. Not worth the hassle to us law abiders, IMHO

Instead of thread jacking, I'll point to a discussion already in progress concerning the absurdity and origin of these laws:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../209881-purchasing_handguns_out_of_state.html

 

[sloughfoot]

This evening, I took possession of two handguns that I bought from a private seller in another State. They were shipped to my FFL and my FFL has them listed in his bound book. As you all know, in the NICS check, the FFL advised that the transaction was for a handgun. Make, model, serial number and that it was two handguns were not divulged. Because it does not matter.

My transfer cost $20 bucks plus sales tax.

The transfer process indeed just shows something that I already know, that I am legal to possess a firearm.

I understand the law, I just don't agree that someone accepting a firearm in his home state on his own property should have to verify where the transferor is from. That is the transferor's responsibility. The transaction is taking place in Indiana and as far as the transferee is concerned, he is not a Cop and should not be expected to do the Cop's job.

It is an interstate transaction for the transferor not the transferee because only the tranferor crossed any state lines.

I will say no more on this subject lest I reap the wrath of the Mod's.

 

[handgun]

Ks& E does the transfers for 20.00 bucks.. Cheapest place i have found... I wouldn't risk it. Now, if the guy has an Indiana ID... then your fine.. If not Just do the FFL.. save you some piece of mind..

I have a deal going on a guy that is out of state (Arkansas)wants to trade a rifle and handgun for a boat I have for sale. If he comes to Indiana to look at and pickup boat, would the legal way be to bring the guns and go to a FFL and he turns them over to the FFL and then I do a 4473 to take them from there? Can the FFL take a gun from a private party FTF that is out of state?
Anyway to meet him halfway and me bring guns back to a FFL and make a transfer? Trying to keep from shipping the guns so both of us have a chance to inspect the goods.
Thanks

 

[MrsGungho]

This evening, I took possession of two handguns that I bought from a private seller in another State. They were shipped to my FFL and my FFL has them listed in his bound book. As you all know, in the NICS check, the FFL advised that the transaction was for a handgun. Make, model, serial number and that it was two handguns were not divulged. Because it does not matter.

My transfer cost $20 bucks plus sales tax.

The transfer process indeed just shows something that I already know, that I am legal to possess a firearm.

I understand the law, I just don't agree that someone accepting a firearm in his home state on his own property should have to verify where the transferor is from. That is the transferor's responsibility. The transaction is taking place in Indiana and as far as the transferee is concerned, he is not a Cop and should not be expected to do the Cop's job.

It is an interstate transaction for the transferor not the transferee because only the tranferor crossed any state lines.

I will say no more on this subject lest I reap the wrath of the Mod's.

You 100% sure on that?

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf

your transfer shouldn't have cost sales tax either. That is not the job of the gun store to collect sales tax on transfers.