Training Priorities: Which Classes Should I Take?

[rhino]

Sorry, Robins, no "son."

 

[Jackson]

Take a class that teaches you how to FIGHT with your gun, and not just punch holes in paper. If you're at a class and you regularly hear the phrase, "unload, show clear" after each drill, leave immediately.

And get medical training. And legal training. That's where I tell people to start.

I generally agree with this, but a cold range doesn't necessarily equate to poor training. I don't like a cold range and definitely prefer a hot range environment for my training. However, some of the most proficient and technical shooters in the world operate almost exclusively on a cold range. Often when they hold classes, they use the same format. I would not exclude myself from that level of instruction over a nitpick like a hot range.

You don't build the "bad habits" that people are concerned about with a cold range in the course of a two or five-day class. You should be building all of the good habits by consistently practicing and getting reps at home. Experience as many methods as you can. Take it home and work what you want.

 

[sporter]

Take a class that teaches you how to FIGHT with your gun, and not just punch holes in paper. If you're at a class and you regularly hear the phrase, "unload, show clear" after each drill, leave immediately.

And get medical training. And legal training. That's where I tell people to start.

Do you have a newsletter? I want to subscribe.

 

[Never A Victim]

I generally agree with this, but a cold range doesn't necessarily equate to poor training. I don't like a cold range and definitely prefer a hot range environment for my training. However, some of the most proficient and technical shooters in the world operate almost exclusively on a cold range. Often when they hold classes, they use the same format. I would not exclude myself from that level of instruction over a nitpick like a hot range.

You don't build the "bad habits" that people are concerned about with a cold range in the course of a two or five-day class. You should be building all of the good habits by consistently practicing and getting reps at home. Experience as many methods as you can. Take it home and work what you want.

While I understand that there are some good instructors out there who run cold ranges, the question I have is "why?" If they are such good instructors who are preparing you for a gunfight, shouldn't they know that at the end of your violent encounter you probably don't need to unload and show clear your gun? If they are concerned about the safety aspect of everyone carrying a loaded gun, then I can't place them in a "good" instructor category. And as far as safety goes, unloading and loading your gun carries a higher risk for an ND than just leaving it loaded throughout the day.

You take training class to learn how to practice on your own. When I go to the range on my own, I don't unload and show clear after every drill and I wont do it after a gunfight. Some people might claim thats a "small" issue and will get over it. I guess I just find it differently-It's a big deal to me.

 

[Coach]

Why? In a Basic class of new shooters I have them unload and show clear on the line when we change flights. Safety is one reason. I insist that the gun be cased and separate from ammo when they are off the line. I don't let them handle the gun, but it being unloaded is a little added insurance. The other reason is that it gets them familiar with the controls and how to unload it safely without incident. To learn good gun handling you need to actually handle and manipulate the gun. Loading and unloading multiple times helps a newbie get that down.

In a competition class we do it because that is the rules and the class is preparation of the match so it makes sense. The familiarization process mention above also comes into play. Many people are the scariest at the unload phase.

Now in a Defensive pistol or marksmanship class I agree completely with you.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If they are concerned about the safety aspect of everyone carrying a loaded gun, then I can't place them in a "good" instructor category.

This fellow may disagree.

 

[sporter]

While I understand that there are some good instructors out there who run cold ranges, the question I have is "why?" If they are such good instructors who are preparing you for a gunfight, shouldn't they know that at the end of your violent encounter you probably don't need to unload and show clear your gun? If they are concerned about the safety aspect of everyone carrying a loaded gun, then I can't place them in a "good" instructor category. And as far as safety goes, unloading and loading your gun carries a higher risk for an ND than just leaving it loaded throughout the day.

You take training class to learn how to practice on your own. When I go to the range on my own, I don't unload and show clear after every drill and I wont do it after a gunfight. Some people might claim thats a "small" issue and will get over it. I guess I just find it differently-It's a big deal to me.

Posts like these are what make coming to tactics and training forum worth it. Always good for a few laughs..

 

[rhino]

Why? In a Basic class of new shooters I have them unload and show clear on the line when we change flights. Safety is one reason. I insist that the gun be cased and separate from ammo when they are off the line. I don't let them handle the gun, but it being unloaded is a little added insurance. The other reason is that it gets them familiar with the controls and how to unload it safely without incident. To learn good gun handling you need to actually handle and manipulate the gun. Loading and unloading multiple times helps a newbie get that down.

In a competition class we do it because that is the rules and the class is preparation of the match so it makes sense. The familiarization process mention above also comes into play. Many people are the scariest at the unload phase.

Now in a Defensive pistol or marksmanship class I agree completely with you.

You are clearly not a good instructor, Coach. Heh-heh-heh. <--- new Col. Sanders chuckle

I think everyone knows how I feel about so-called cold ranges given the amount of time I've spent complaining about the concept, its practice, and potential unintended consequences. I think cold ranges are stupid in general.

Given that, there are quite a few excellent instructors and teachers who choose to operate cold ranges, sometimes for very specific reasons or applications. Not all classes are specifically defense or combat oriented. To categorically dismiss the ability of an instructor solely based on operating a cold range makes almost as much sense as cold ranges do.

 

[riverman67]

What you did.....I Saw it.
I am not an instructor and I never will be.
I have been to a few classes and I am a certified RO. I take a squad at most of the matches that I shoot. I have seen some outstanding gun handling and the extreme opposite.

For this reason I am very glad that pistol matches are conducted under a cold range.

I have no problem with defensive pistol classes being run under a hot range,the goal is different , and most instructors vet their students for anything above a level 1 class.

 

[foszoe]

How does an instructor vet a student? For example, I have only myself to compare myself to and when I go to class, with few exceptions, I find myself thinking "boy I could sure learn a lot from watching this or that person". Maybe I suffer from a lack of self confidence, but when signing up for this or that class, I do find myself wondering if I am ready to take a class at "the next level".

I have yet to observe any vetting, not that it hasn't happened, but I didn't see it and am curious.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I think cold ranges are stupid in general.

So, you don't shoot in January and February?

 

[riverman67]

How does an instructor vet a student? For example, I have only myself to compare myself to and when I go to class, with few exceptions, I find myself thinking "boy I could sure learn a lot from watching this or that person". Maybe I suffer from a lack of self confidence, but when signing up for this or that class, I do find myself wondering if I am ready to take a class at "the next level".

I have yet to observe any vetting, not that it hasn't happened, but I didn't see it and am curious.

I'm not an instructor
Some of the more advanced training that I have taken,one handed gun manipulation comes to mind, the instructor required that you had completed some level training with them or someone else.
That's the vetting I was referring to,again I am not an instructor.

 

[rhino]

How does an instructor vet a student? For example, I have only myself to compare myself to and when I go to class, with few exceptions, I find myself thinking "boy I could sure learn a lot from watching this or that person". Maybe I suffer from a lack of self confidence, but when signing up for this or that class, I do find myself wondering if I am ready to take a class at "the next level".

I have yet to observe any vetting, not that it hasn't happened, but I didn't see it and am curious.

I'm not an instructor
Some of the more advanced training that I have taken,one handed gun manipulation comes to mind, the instructor required that you had completed some level training with them or someone else.
That's the vetting I was referring to,again I am not an instructor.

That's an excellent example of vetting. I put a requirement in the course announcement that instructor approval is required for the class. If I don't know the person and haven't been on the range to observe their general skill level and range behavior, I'm going to ask questions. I'll ask about their prior training and based on both their answers and how they answer, I might approve them. In more than one case, I've asked their "reference instructor" to vouch for them. I've also declined admission to people whose skill level and range behavior were too much of a question mark (or known to be a risk). I've also allowed people in classes with the expectation that they might require more supervision than some of the others.

 

[Jackson]

I always require that bit of extra supervision, but he always let's me attend.

 

[Coach]

It is also easy to sit back and say all ranges should be hot and all holsters should be allowed and I should be free to do as I please. But until it is your property and your insurance and your reputation and your ass on the line it is a lot of talk. So judge by cold range or any other single point you want. But until you walk the talk it is just talk.

 

[bwframe]

The hot/cold range is meh for me. I can go either way. I can load my gun pretty quick if SHTF and I'm cool with not getting shot in the back.

I have been to a class with "big boy rules" that IMHO should have been run cold.

 

[chillidip1]

I don't have a problem taking a class from an instructor who runs a cold range. The world is full of mouth breathing morons and some of these people own guns and attend training classes. I have attended enough classes and have observed enough squirrelly behavior that made me thankful or wish that the idiot in question didn't have a loaded firearm.

 

[SMiller]

Cold ranges ARE stupid, you must train the way you will fight, picking up a firearm, loading it, chambering it, then firing it is NOT how you fight!

 

[turnandshoot4]

Cold ranges ARE stupid, you must train the way you will fight, picking up a firearm, loading it, chambering it, then firing it is NOT how you fight!

Unless, you know, you find a firearm in a failure state that requires picking up a firearm, stripping the mag, loading it, chambering it, then firing.

 

[SMiller]

Unless, you know, you find a firearm in a failure state that requires picking up a firearm, stripping the mag, loading it, chambering it, then firing.

Cold rage does not equal a malfunction, try again...