Turk Mauser Model 38/46 Short Rifle

[DoggyDaddy]

DD I Came across some Turk numbers.. Looks like for the Short Rifles there was only 4325 of the 1903 short Rifles made and 11625 of the 1938 Short rifles...

I came across a 1945 K Kale model with a serial number in the 8900s which is spot on with this Serial number guide... How about your rifle???

Turk Mauser - Serial Numbers

I can not believe that there are more 1938 short rifles (Almost 3 - 1) over the 1903 Short rifles.. From the way you see them selling on Gunbroker you would think there were more of the 1903s

According to that list, mine was made in 1944 (Serial # 27xx).

 

[indy1919a4]

Ok So after a nights sleep,, The way to know what Short Mauser you have, I think you need to look at the year it was made and ones made in the 1940s are 38/46s (And Now I agree what the heck does that 46 number mean) and then the 03/38 Short Rifles were the made between 1937 - 1939

 

[mkgr22]

Cripe, Here is some of the Problem... Look at this rifle on Gunbroker,, It is listed as a 03/38.. But It can not be.. with the year of 1944 on it and a serial number in the 6800 range.. So this has to be a 1938 short rifle. I think the lister is looking at the Stock and assuming that with the filled in Bolt dis assembly hole that it is a 1903.. But I wonder of the 1903 short Rifles are Straight bolts????

Turkish mauser 03/38 short rifle 1944 : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

DD, and Indy, the rifle in the auction is not a 1903. The 1903 action has three distinctive features that you can see in the pictures I'm attaching. The bolt knob is pear shaped, and the stripper clip guide is a pronounced hump. Also, the 1903's were originally sold to the Turks in 7.62x53mm, and it is an intermediate length action. When they were re-barreled to 8mm, the front ring had to be notched to accommodate the longer round.

Many of the "model designations" were invented by importers, and have no bearing on the actual mausers the Turks used. The Turks were smart enough to try to standardize their inventory as much as possible.

View attachment 28287 View attachment 28286 View attachment 28285

 

[DoggyDaddy]

DD, and Indy, the rifle in the auction is not a 1903. The 1903 action has three distinctive features that you can see in the pictures I'm attaching. The bolt knob is pear shaped, and the stripper clip guide is a pronounced hump. Also, the 1903's were originally sold to the Turks in 7.62x53mm, and it is an intermediate length action. When they were re-barreled to 8mm, the front ring had to be notched to accommodate the longer round.

Many of the "model designations" were invented by importers, and have no bearing on the actual mausers the Turks used. The Turks were smart enough to try to standardize their inventory as much as possible.

View attachment 28287 View attachment 28286 View attachment 28285

The one on gunbroker almost looks like a hybrid of an 03/38 (03 style stock with no relief cut for the turned down bolt), and a 38/46 (with the round/flat sided bolt). Could be a mixmaster I suppose?

 

[mkgr22]

The one on gunbroker almost looks like a hybrid of an 03/38 (03 style stock with no relief cut for the turned down bolt), and a 38/46 (with the round/flat sided bolt). Could be a mixmaster I suppose?

The hard and fast rule you must remember with Turk mausers is... "There are no rules".

The auction rifle looks like it might be in a modified long rifle stock. It lacks the sling hole through the butt as well., and the takedown disks are missing with the holes plugged.

 

[indy1919a4]

Holy Smoke I spend 2 nights on the computer trying to get to the bottom of this Turk Short Gun Issue and MKG22 has it all down pat.. If I was smart I should have just asked you Mike..

Hey Per this issue of Sling Holes in the butt and Take down Disks being used to Identify what type short Rifle it is.. I am leaning to thinking that the stock is not important to deciding which model it is.. I really am thinking the year on the rifle is the deciding factor.. But I need to look at more 03/38 models to compare. But then again there I go trying to Make rules...

Thanks again Mike

 

[indy1919a4]

The one on gunbroker almost looks like a hybrid of an 03/38 (03 style stock with no relief cut for the turned down bolt), and a 38/46 (with the round/flat sided bolt). Could be a mixmaster I suppose?

I am finding the Turned down bolt can be on either short Rifle.. At least I have see examples of the turned down bolt on (What I believe to be a 03/38) on both Short Rifles.. But who knows when that was down.. Its not like any of these even have a matching number on them...

 

[indy1919a4]

Here is another variant.. Not a lot of photos...

I am assuming 38/46 (from the year) but I like the relief cut for the straight bolt... Kind of Sort of unneeded, but so is the sling cut in the stock.. So what the hell, why not..

1944 Turkish Mauser K-Kale short rifle : WW1 & WW2 Collectibles at GunBroker.com

 

[mkgr22]

Here is another variant.. Not a lot of photos...

I am assuming 38/46 (from the year) but I like the relief cut for the straight bolt... Kind of Sort of unneeded, but so is the sling cut in the stock.. So what the hell, why not..

1944 Turkish Mauser K-Kale short rifle : WW1 & WW2 Collectibles at GunBroker.com

Since the bolt serial number doesn't match, we will never know what the rifle started out with. I saw another short rifle on Gunboards this week without the sling slot in the butt.

 

[indiucky]

I can not believe this thread is 3 pages long about a daggone TURKISH MAUSER!!!!!! What is wrong with you people?????

Now please doggydaddy start a quality thread we have never seen here on INGO...Something like...."What's your favorite Glock?", "Does anyone else LOVE their Glock 19?", "Help me decide guys...A Glock 19 or a Glock 23?", or maybe "Which one for carry, a Glock 19 or a Smith M&P?"

Those are quality threads where one can learn about whether a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 uses a different batch of plastic in the mold....THAT"S what we need more of.......

 

[indy1919a4]

Since the bolt serial number doesn't match,

Has anyone anywhere evereven seen a Turk Short rifle with matching Serial numbers...???????

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I can not believe this thread is 3 pages long about a daggone TURKISH MAUSER!!!!!! What is wrong with you people?????

Now please doggydaddy start a quality thread we have never seen here on INGO...Something like...."What's your favorite Glock?", "Does anyone else LOVE their Glock 19?", "Help me decide guys...A Glock 19 or a Glock 23?", or maybe "Which one for carry, a Glock 19 or a Smith M&P?"
Those are quality threads where one can learn about whether a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 uses a different batch of plastic in the mold....THAT"S what we need more of.......

Well, wait another 50-70 years and maybe by then Glocks will be interesting?

 

[indiucky]

Well, wait another 50-70 years and maybe by then Glocks will be interesting?

100 years from now a son converses with his father.....

"Dad"

"Yeah son"

"Is it true that people used to actually have pistols made out of plastic?"

"Yes...I can remember seeing them when I was about your age.."

"But Dad...Didn't someone try to tell them???? I mean how could they not know that plastic was just plastic?"

"Well son...That there is called marketing....They changed the name from Plastic to Polymer, made 'em black and nobody had any idea. There were ads, they had a former marine pushing them and Gaston Glock hired Vegas strippers to push them at the SHOT show every year..."

"So?"

"Well son....No one can sell guns like a Vegas stripper teamed up with an Austrian engineer..."


Just kidding Glock Guys!!!!!!

 

[mkgr22]

I can not believe this thread is 3 pages long about a daggone TURKISH MAUSER!!!!!! What is wrong with you people?????

Now please doggydaddy start a quality thread we have never seen here on INGO...Something like...."What's your favorite Glock?", "Does anyone else LOVE their Glock 19?", "Help me decide guys...A Glock 19 or a Glock 23?", or maybe "Which one for carry, a Glock 19 or a Smith M&P?"

Those are quality threads where one can learn about whether a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 uses a different batch of plastic in the mold....THAT"S what we need more of.......

Rick, I have to spout off on mauser threads. It's the only subject where I know enough to ptrtend to know what I'm talking about.

 

[indy1919a4]

Well, wait another 50-70 years and maybe by then Glocks will be interesting?

ha ha ha, you make a good point, My interest in a gun design starts to really kick in when the design Hits that 50 year mark... by 70 years.. I know I ga-ta-get-one... The only time I fell in love with a newer gun was when the Duke took out that car in McQ with a Mac-10 over in England... There is just something about John Wayne offing a bunch of bad guys with an Illegal Automatic weapon in England that warms heart of any true American. [FONT=arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

 

[DoggyDaddy]

100 years from now a son converses with his father.....

"Dad"

"Yeah son"

"Is it true that people used to actually have pistols made out of plastic?"

"Yes...I can remember seeing them when I was about your age.."

"But Dad...Didn't someone try to tell them???? I mean how could they not know that plastic was just plastic?"

"Well son...That there is called marketing....They changed the name from Plastic to Polymer, made 'em black and nobody had any idea. There were ads, they had a former marine pushing them and Gaston Glock hired Vegas strippers to push them at the SHOT show every year..."

"So?"

"Well son....No one can sell guns like a Vegas stripper teamed up with an Austrian engineer..."


Just kidding Glock Guys!!!!!!

Well, in fairness, Paul Mauser didn't have Vegas strippers around to market his rifles. I'd imagine this was about the best he had to work with.

 

[indy1919a4]

http://www.clipartclipart.com/_images_300/German_barmaid_100329-156379-563057.jpg[/IMG]

Gee how do you follow that..

Look deep down I am not proud to post this link, I would prefer people do not know I read such things*** And of course it has a leftest slant.. But
this is a pretty nice little article about the arms trade of the early 1900s and on... Its not super detailed and its tries to be pithy, but there are some nice stories and insights

"Merchants of Death": The International Traffic in Arms | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Gee how do you follow that..

Look deep down I am not proud to post this link, I would prefer people do not know I read such things*** And of course it has a leftest slant.. But
this is a pretty nice little article about the arms trade of the early 1900s and on... Its not super detailed and its tries to be pithy, but there are some nice stories and insights

"Merchants of Death": The International Traffic in Arms | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective

Good article, but it's pretty apparent that the author has some anti-gun leanings. It was interesting to see all the dealings and machinations involved in the trade though.