Unions turning to violence against non-union business, shot owner of company!

[mrortega]

I'm not contesting that they work their a**es off, just that they don't want a laser screed around because it does the work of 5 or 6 guys with ease. Trowel machines are a necessity on large jobs to keep up with the curing, so they use them. Pumper trucks are also a necessity on tall wall pours, mezzanines, etc. Georgia buggies still need a guy to run them, so those are used.

What gets me is that when the concrete guys get to the end of a pour and have to put a 2x8 in to close up the part where the trucks were bringing concrete in......they aren't allowed to do it. They have to wait for a carpenter to come in and put that one board in. If it isn't your trade....even if you know how to do it and can do it in a few minutes.....you can't perform the work of another trade (no matter how small it is). I've seen it done, but they usually get yelled at.

I'll admit we had some of that same crap around here at one time: A pipefitter on a large job had to wait for an operator to come start his welder. Only operators could change the oil on a back hoe. Those days are mostly gone. When we laid underground pipe in ditches we bedded our own sand in. When the laborers complained I'd tell them bedding pipe is plumber's work and they could have the rest of the ditch for backfilling. Besides them claiming it is was cheaper than a plumber doing it. Common sense ruled. One of the best times I had was when a laborer steward tried to stop me from shoveling white rock into an acid dilution pit for pipe that came out of a chemistry lab. He claimed working with rock was his people's job. I told him in this case it might look like white rock but it was being used inside the fiberglass basin as 99% pure calcium carbonate for acid neutralization. He agreed and had a good laugh. I told him his people could put the rest of it in around the outside of the basin as fill since it magically turned back into lime stone at that point!

 

[Rookie]

While I agree it's ridiculous (and I don't always follow the union rules), you have to remember that the company agreed to the "lines of demarcation". Example, as a job setter, I set dies in excess of 80 tons. I can get the die out of storage, put it on the wagon, take it to the machine, and set it in the machine. What I can't do is get the two ton die hangar sitting outside the door and bring it in to the overhead crane to pick up the die. Why? Because management agreed that's a millwright's job. Stupid? Yep. Do I always wait? Nope.

Another thing some people don't realize. Management enjoys having some lazy people. Sounds stupid, but hear me out. For three years, they've turned their head and ignored the large group of lazy worthless workers. Come contract time, they walk every single one out the door (work stoppage, excessive breaks, absenteeism, etc), then it's time to negotiate. You want tempered air in the whole plant? That will cost millions. How about we do half the plant, and we rehire the people we just fired?

The deal is made, management brings the jerk offs back, wait a few months, re fire said jerk offs, pocket the savings and go back to ignoring the lazy people.

Not all union workers are lazy, most do their jobs, and the workers that actually work HATE the lazy workers.

 

[jsharmon7]

I'm almost making $50,000 a/year, without the union I'll be making minimum wage

So what you do at work is worth about $15k - $16k per year to the job market and your company, but the union has inflated it up to $50k? And you don't see why that's a bad thing for the economy? Of course you love the unions, why wouldn't you? The reason a professional athlete is paid so highly is because there are very few people in the world who possess their skills and can do what they do. The reason McDonald's employees are paid so little is because most everyone in the world possesses their skills and can do what they do. If you provided such an important benefit for your company and to the job market then they would have to pay you more than minimum wage in order to keep your from going elsewhere.

I don't know you, so it's nothing personal against you at all. But, your pay should be based on what benefits you provide to your company, what skills you bring to the table, and the supply of other folks out there who could do what you do. If you're telling us that your company values what you do at $15k per year but the union forces them to pay you $50k, then I have to ask why you don't understand why so many here think that's bad for the economy...

 

[gunman41mag]

So what you do at work is worth about $15k - $16k per year to the job market and your company, but the union has inflated it up to $50k? And you don't see why that's a bad thing for the economy? Of course you love the unions, why wouldn't you? The reason a professional athlete is paid so highly is because there are very few people in the world who possess their skills and can do what they do. The reason McDonald's employees are paid so little is because most everyone in the world possesses their skills and can do what they do. If you provided such an important benefit for your company and to the job market then they would have to pay you more than minimum wage in order to keep your from going elsewhere.

I don't know you, so it's nothing personal against you at all. But, your pay should be based on what benefits you provide to your company, what skills you bring to the table, and the supply of other folks out there who could do what you do. If you're telling us that your company values what you do at $15k per year but the union forces them to pay you $50k, then I have to ask why you don't understand why so many here think that's bad for the economy...

Not to many guys will stick their necks out, defending their UNION BROTHERS & SISTERS. I fight for my shop, managers know not to mess with the union members for petty BULL. Plus I work my hairy butt off for the company, that's why I'm worth $50,000 a/year

 

[ckcollins2003]

So what you do at work is worth about $15k - $16k per year to the job market and your company, but the union has inflated it up to $50k? And you don't see why that's a bad thing for the economy? Of course you love the unions, why wouldn't you? The reason a professional athlete is paid so highly is because there are very few people in the world who possess their skills and can do what they do. The reason McDonald's employees are paid so little is because most everyone in the world possesses their skills and can do what they do. If you provided such an important benefit for your company and to the job market then they would have to pay you more than minimum wage in order to keep your from going elsewhere.

I don't know you, so it's nothing personal against you at all. But, your pay should be based on what benefits you provide to your company, what skills you bring to the table, and the supply of other folks out there who could do what you do. If you're telling us that your company values what you do at $15k per year but the union forces them to pay you $50k, then I have to ask why you don't understand why so many here think that's bad for the economy...

I actually find it hard to believe that there are less people who can run, throw a ball, and swing a bat, than pour french fries in a fryer and cook hamburgers. In fact my 13 month old nephew can run and throw a ball. He also swings a plastic golf club. What he can't do is cook...

While I agree with most of your statement that your pay should be based on the job you do and the skill set that is needed, it's not the union that has driven the pay of the employee up and you can't just blame the union. In fact if people weren't paid what they are, no products would be bought and no skills would be needed because noone could afford to keep any company in business unless you crap money. Every company who has union employees agrees to a contract for those employees. It's not the union who is "forcing" them to pay him that much. The company agreed with the union that his job is worth that much. What you are implying and what he has stated are 2 different things.

He's saying that if his company (like every other) didn't have to give raises or pay someone extra for more work, they wouldn't. They would pay everyone minimum wage so that the owner/s of the company can pocket more money.

Imagine how the economy would be if everyone made minimum wage. It would hurt the economy just as much, if not more, than if everyone was overpaid. People wouldn't be able to provide for themselves, let alone their families...

What you said about his job could be said about yours, mine, and everyone else's. It's not up to you or me to say what our jobs are worth. It's up to the company we work for and that's why the company agrees with the union on a pay scale for certain jobs.

 

[jsharmon7]

He's saying that if his company (like every other) didn't have to give raises or pay someone extra for more work, they wouldn't. They would pay everyone minimum wage so that the owner/s of the company can pocket more money.

Imagine how the economy would be if everyone made minimum wage. It would hurt the economy just as much, if not more, than if everyone was overpaid. People wouldn't be able to provide for themselves, let alone their families...

What you said about his job could be said about yours, mine, and everyone else's. It's not up to you or me to say what our jobs are worth. It's up to the company we work for and that's why the company agrees with the union on a pay scale for certain jobs.

I absolutely disagree. Let's say Bob is an aeronautical engineer who designs airplanes. Are you telling me that without unions his company would pay him minimum wage? Absolutely not, because someone with that sort of knowledge, training, and experience isn't as common as a lot of other types of workers. A company can't just hire any person off the street to design airplanes, they need someone with specific skills, like Bob. If Bob's company doesn't want to pay him as much as another aerospace company, then Bob will leave that employer and go work for the higher-paying employer. That's how the job market is supposed to work. A guy makes $20k a year at McDonald's because anybody can flip a burger. A guy makes $120k at Boeing because not just anybody can design an airplane. If you have a skill that any number of people possess, then you're not as valuable to the job market and aren't going to get paid as much. If you have a valuable skill or experience level, then you will be paid for it. You shouldn't need a union to force a company to pay you more than you're worth under the threat of work stoppage or violence. If your company could get away with paying you minimum wage (as 41mag stated) then that's because that's what your job is worth to the market. If that weren't the case, then another employer would be offering you more in order to utilize your skills. It's simple capitalism and economics. What you and 41mag are doing is throwing the laws of supply-and-demand right out the window. What if I had a ring I wanted to sell you and I was asking $1,000 for it. You've looked at the ring and decided that it's a dime-a-dozen ring that you're only willing to pay $100 for because you can get them anywhere. Well, if it's really worth $1,000 then I can take it to the next guy and see if he'll give me $1,000 for it. If he offers $100, and the next guy offers $100, and the next...well it's only worth $100. If I arrange for somebody to come in and intimidate you into paying $1,000 for it, it doesn't make it worth $1,000. All I'm saying is call it what it is.

 

[youngda9]

Well Said Jsharmon7. Some people operate off an entitlement principle. They know what their "skills" are really worth. They must band together to artificially inflate their worth...we all end up paying for it out of our pockets.

I got a good chuckle out of gunman's post #684 where he completely dodges the question to tell us that he works hard(as if non-union people don't, LOL). He also drags out his tired old "Us-Vs-Management" blather. He can't answer direct, and well thought out, questions...just the same old fallback positions.

 

[bigg cheese]

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of any given group, union, non union, ethnic groups or what have you, work hard. The difference is that in unions, union members don't typically rat each other out and even if they do, there is a massive bureaucracy in place to prevent removal of employees, lowering the bottom line for the company.

It had a purpose 80 years ago, but now it's a waste of resources. I was happy when Daniels ditched the union after he got elected.

 

[ckcollins2003]

I absolutely disagree. Let's say Bob is an aeronautical engineer who designs airplanes. Are you telling me that without unions his company would pay him minimum wage? Absolutely not, because someone with that sort of knowledge, training, and experience isn't as common as a lot of other types of workers. A company can't just hire any person off the street to design airplanes, they need someone with specific skills, like Bob. If Bob's company doesn't want to pay him as much as another aerospace company, then Bob will leave that employer and go work for the higher-paying employer. That's how the job market is supposed to work. A guy makes $20k a year at McDonald's because anybody can flip a burger. A guy makes $120k at Boeing because not just anybody can design an airplane. If you have a skill that any number of people possess, then you're not as valuable to the job market and aren't going to get paid as much. If you have a valuable skill or experience level, then you will be paid for it. You shouldn't need a union to force a company to pay you more than you're worth under the threat of work stoppage or violence. If your company could get away with paying you minimum wage (as 41mag stated) then that's because that's what your job is worth to the market. If that weren't the case, then another employer would be offering you more in order to utilize your skills. It's simple capitalism and economics. What you and 41mag are doing is throwing the laws of supply-and-demand right out the window. What if I had a ring I wanted to sell you and I was asking $1,000 for it. You've looked at the ring and decided that it's a dime-a-dozen ring that you're only willing to pay $100 for because you can get them anywhere. Well, if it's really worth $1,000 then I can take it to the next guy and see if he'll give me $1,000 for it. If he offers $100, and the next guy offers $100, and the next...well it's only worth $100. If I arrange for somebody to come in and intimidate you into paying $1,000 for it, it doesn't make it worth $1,000. All I'm saying is call it what it is.

Supply and demand has nothing to do with an employer paying an employee a salary or hourly wage. Supply and demand has everything to do with the cost of goods and services.

And actually, anyone can build an airplane if they are trained to do it. Each skill has been passed down from one person to another. If I went to Bob's work and applied for a job, they hired me, and trained me how to build an airplane, I could do it. This doesn't necessarily make it worth more money.

Now I know where you're coming from and I agree with you, but there are stipulations that I've pointed out that throw your economic strategy straight through the window. Anyone can be trained to do any job. It's the same way we learn to walk, talk, eat, and wipe our ass. It's the type of creature that we are.

And unions don't force employers to pay a certain wage. You're still thinking of the 1940-1950's unions which were owned and operated by organized crime syndicates. Once again, when new contracts come into play, the employer and the union sit down and discuss a contract. Can the employer do away with the union? Hell yeah they can. You're trying to tell me that a little localized union is strong arming the biggest shipping company in the world? Come on now... lets be realistic. CEO's and other big wigs of UPS have no reason to be afraid of some old union reps. I'm pretty sure their lawyers will take care of them if it comes down to it.

The thing about a union is that it makes things run smoothly. You don't have all of the lawsuits and this and that when your employees work through a union. This keeps bad press out of the situation which is what a lot of companies want. They don't want to be on the news for getting sued by such and such person for racial discrimination, harassment, changing time cards, and not paying their employees. If they were noone would want to work there and the place would collapse.

Like I said, opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got one. But until you have resourceful proof that backs up the claims you mention, it's nothing but an opinion. If you can show me where unions have actually hurt the economy, please do it. Because the economy was fine until the stock market crashed and there were unions long before that happened. So tell me how the unions, over a period of 50 or so years, made the economy collapse all of a sudden...

 

[IndianaSigma]

Unions DO force companies to pay their employees a certain wage. My stepdad owns a masonry company and has tried to go non-union. They are not able to because of the large fee they must pay to get out of the union (pensions, etc.). He is basically stuck being a union company and he is forced to pay the employees more than they are worth.

Unions also hurt the economy by wasting taxpayer money on government construction projects that the taxpayers could pay a non-union company half the cost of what a union company charges. I'm with a non-union commercial concrete company and we have done some government work in the past. We are forced to pay our guys prevailing wage (union wages) just to be able to do the project. This is a waste and takes money directly out of citizens' pockets.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Learned early on in this thread!

They love their unions and you'll never change their minds.

Desubbed.

CYA!

 

[ckcollins2003]

Unions DO force companies to pay their employees a certain wage. My stepdad owns a masonry company and has tried to go non-union. They are not able to because of the large fee they must pay to get out of the union (pensions, etc.). He is basically stuck being a union company and he is forced to pay the employees more than they are worth.

Unions also hurt the economy by wasting taxpayer money on government construction projects that the taxpayers could pay a non-union company half the cost of what a union company charges. I'm with a non-union commercial concrete company and we have done some government work in the past. We are forced to pay our guys prevailing wage (union wages) just to be able to do the project. This is a waste and takes money directly out of citizens' pockets.

So your stepdad agreed to a union contract, then wanted out and they want him to pay the fee that he agreed to beforehand? That's usually how contracts work... he would have known that fee was there before he ever agreed to it had he read the contract. He also would have known the employees wages and just because he says they are not worth it doesn't mean he can't make them worth it. Tell him to make them work. Unions don't hold a magical force field over the employees when it comes to not working (at least not mine).

As for hurting the economy, so you say that the government is forcing you to pay your guys "union wages" to do government jobs even though your company is non-union? And you blame the union... why? If the government is forcing you to pay the wages then obviously it's not the localized union that is forcing the company to pay those wages. So why are you blaming the union for this? Just because you feel it's a union thread and you can, so you will? And actually no, it's not wasting taxpayers money because the money for that project is going straight into the hands of citizens who will be buying goods from other companies and keeping the economy on the rise. It would be wasting taxpayers money if it went straight to the government and used to buy more firearms to give to mexican drug cartels. What part of economics isn't clear? If people can't purchase goods and services then the economy will collapse. It's not about how much people make, but how they can spend it. Just because you make $15.00/hour on a certain job, then $10.00/hour on another doesn't mean it's a waste of money. Someone feels your worth it for some reason and has decided to give it to you for your hard work. Enjoy it rather than ***** about it...

Just another failed attempt at trying to prove the union hurts the economy... by blaming the government and thinking people will see them as the same thing.

Once again, unions were around long before the economical collapse. Learn about it. Think about it. Then look into unemployment and welfare. Then tell me how working people are hurting the economy.

 

[youngda9]

Supply and demand has nothing to do with an employer paying an employee a salary or hourly wage. Wrong, it has everything to do with it. If there are only 5 guys in the world that can do a certain job, then they will get paid accordingly. If anyone can do a certain job then they will be paid in peanuts. This is a simple concept of capitalism that you don't understand. Supply and demand has everything to do with the cost of goods and services. (Services are jobs...you just contradicted your previous statement)

And actually, anyone can build an airplane if they are trained to do it. No, they can't. Most people are not smart enough to master the engineering, electronics, and physics principles necessary to build a plane. Each skill has been passed down from one person to another. If I went to Bob's work and applied for a job, they hired me, and trained me how to build an airplane, I could do it. This doesn't necessarily make it worth more money. Yes, it does...because now you have been trained(at the employers expense) to do a skill that any bum off the street can't do. You've had time and money invested in you and you have knowledge that others don't...therefore you are worth more and will be paid as such in a free market system.

Now I know where you're coming from and I agree with you, but there are stipulations that I've pointed out that throw your economic strategy straight through the window. Anyone can be trained to do any job. NO, not true. just because you think you're smart enough to be a doctor or engineer doesn't mean the guy swinging a hammer next to you is? It's the same way we learn to walk, talk, eat, and wipe our ass. It's the type of creature that we are.

And unions don't force employers to pay a certain wage. Yes, and if they don't get their way they strike and threaten violence. This costs the company $$. They use these tactics to force employers to do exactly that. You're still thinking of the 1940-1950's unions which were owned and operated by organized crime syndicates. Once again, when new contracts come into play, the employer and the union sit down and discuss a contract. Can the employer do away with the union? Hell yeah they can. You're trying to tell me that a little localized union is strong arming the biggest shipping company in the world? Come on now... lets be realistic. CEO's and other big wigs of UPS have no reason to be afraid of some old union reps. I'm pretty sure their lawyers will take care of them if it comes down to it.

The thing about a union is that it makes things run smoothly. LOL You don't have all of the lawsuits and this and that when your employees work through a union. Wha? This keeps bad press out of the situation which is what a lot of companies want. They don't want to be on the news for getting sued by such and such person for racial discrimination, harassment, changing time cards, and not paying their employees. If they were noone would want to work there and the place would collapse. Clearly this must be why business are flocking to states where they aren't forced to have unions. Also this is why businesses make more money in said states

Like I said, opinions are like *******s. Everyone's got one. But until you have resourceful proof that backs up the claims you mention, it's nothing but an opinion. If you can show me where unions have actually hurt the economy, please do it. Because the economy was fine until the stock market crashed and there were unions long before that happened. So tell me how the unions, over a period of 50 or so years, made the economy collapse all of a sudden...

Some of your statements are astounding.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Wrong, it has everything to do with it. If there are only 5 guys in the world that can do a certain job, then they will get paid accordingly. If anyone can do a certain job then they will be paid in peanuts. This is a simple concept of capitalism that you don't understand.

Wrong. Those 5 guys will get paid whatever people want to pay them. If they can't sell the product for what they want they will sell it for what they can (minimum wage). Companies may make up the price of goods, but it's the consumers that will be handing over the money, and they won't do so if they don't think it's worth it. Heck, they might even just offer peanuts.

No, they can't. Most people are not smart enough to master the engineering, electronics, and physics principles necessary to build a plane. B.S. In this world with the use of computers you can train anyone to build anything. You don't think building a transmission and automobile/plane engine from scrap metal takes the same kind of engineering, electronics, and physics? But oh wait, we just hire steve and dick off the street and put them on a machine that makes the parts.

You must believe that most people are complete morons who wouldn't be able to push a couple of buttons on a door and watch the machine go round and round.

NO, not true. just because you think you're smart enough to be a doctor or engineer doesn't mean the guy swinging a hammer next to you is? He may not be at the time, but if you teach him hands on how to do it he can put that hammer down and do a liver transplant. Once again, it's the same thing as putting people through school. Anyone can do it, it's just how they apply themselves.

Yes, and if they don't get their way they strike and threaten violence. This costs the company $$. They use these tactics to force employers to do exactly that. Once again you're wrong on how it works. Union employees can't just strike when they don't get their way. That's called a wildcat strike and everyone involved will be fired and the union will not back them up. Over time the union has learned a few things and one of those things is that strikes are not good. Not for the company or the employees.

As I've stated previously, maybe not all unions are like mine, but I'm sure most of them are. Don't think they are all the same and put them all in the same group. I work my ass off every night at UPS for a lousy $9,000/year. I do it for the benefits that UPS gives me. Not for the union bullcrap. I don't make enough to care about all the stink that union workers ***** about most of the time. You may not have to be a rocket scientist to do my job, but you have to be in damn good physical shape to lift and lower packages up to 150 lbs. for 4 hours straight. Is my job worth $9,000 a year? Well, I guess that depends on whether or not you guys want all this crap you buy online delivered to your door or if you want to drive and pick it up yourself.

Anyways, I'm not going to argue anymore. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. As I said before, if you don't like unions, don't work for one.

 

[youngda9]

B.S. In this world with the use of computers you can train anyone to build anything.

Building something per directions is one thing. Designing and analyzing the item in question takes a completely different level of knowledge and ability. Employers pay for this ability.

You don't think building a transmission and automobile/plane engine from scrap metal takes the same kind of engineering, electronics, and physics?

I absolutely believe it does.

But oh wait, we just hire steve and dick off the street and put them on a machine that makes the parts.

Yes, for the most part. Factory workers require little education or even knowledge of the product. The guy who installs the door on the front of the microwave assembly line does not need to have thorough knowledge of radio wave theory and the resultant molecule heating. The people who design and analyze the parts these workers assemble require many years of education, along with the brainpower to master their craft(electronics, mechanics, physics, thermodynamics, ...etc.)


And no, I don't believe just anyone can do certain jobs as you seem to. I think that if you really believed what you say(that ANYONE can do these jobs) that you wouldn't be working a back-breaking $9k/yr job. You would get the skills necessary to get a job making 5x-10X that amount without having to do any back-breaking work. To not do so wouldn't make a lot of sense now would it.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Building something per directions is one thing. Designing and analyzing the item in question takes a completely different level of knowledge and ability. Employers pay for this ability.
I absolutely believe it does.

Yes, for the most part. Factory workers require little education or even knowledge of the product. The guy who installs the door on the front of the microwave assembly line does not need to have thorough knowledge of radio wave theory and the resultant molecule heating. The people who design and analyze the parts these workers assemble require many years of education, along with the brainpower to master their craft(electronics, mechanics, physics, thermodynamics, ...etc.)


And no, I don't believe just anyone can do certain jobs as you seem to. I think that if you really believed what you say(that ANYONE can do these jobs) that you wouldn't be working a back-breaking $9k/yr job. You would get the skills necessary to get a job making 5x-10X that amount without having to do any back-breaking work. To not do so wouldn't make a lot of sense now would it.

I absolutely agree. The fine mechanics and physics of said jobs is worth much more, but so are a lot of unionized jobs. Not everyone can build a steel framed building or do electrical work. It might not take as much to learn as building an airplane, but someone who can build an airplane may not be able to run electrical wiring throughout a building or even frame a house. I just don't see how paying unionized electricians a good wage hurts the economy more than paying someone who builds airplanes... It's all the same. People get paid to do what they do best. I think everyone deserves to make a nice living if they put themselves to work for it.

And I could get a better job, in fact I've been to college. I'm A+ certified in computer technology and I've also been to college for automotive technology. I like my job at UPS. I hate the politics that come with it but that's another story. I get my extra money from doing jobs on the side. Whether it's gutting and rebuilding a house or working on someone's computer or car. It's what I like to do and what I enjoy. It may not pay the best but I'm fine with my financial status. I don't need 100k a year to live. I wasn't raised with a lot of money, the military didn't pay me a lot of money, and I honestly wouldn't know what to do with a lot of money. Some of these fancy things that people think they need just doesn't concern me and maybe that's why I don't feel that unions hurt the economy and are completely evil. UPS is doing great. They are one of the few companies that hasn't had a problem since the economical downturn and they are a unionized company. I just can't see where all of the hatred and blame is coming from since I see the exact opposite first hand.

It was good discussing it with you. You have some very good points and if I didn't experience the opposite at my workplace I would probably agree with you.

 

[Sarge48]

I read the first 35 pages and did not see this point mentioned once. If it was, I apologize.

While I was trying to decide to be 100% retired, I worked for a "chain" company that employed people of a certain "field" represented by a union. This company did not have any benefits. This company paid minimum wage. The safety procedures at this company were a joke. (I only worked because my wife thought I needed to do so since she still worked.)

However, to work at this company you had to pay union dues. IT DID NOT MATTER IF YOU WANTED TO JOIN THE UNION OR NOT! In fact, on the union bulletin board it specifically stated that no one was REQUIRED to be a member of the union. But even if you opted out of the union YOU STILL HAD TO PAY THE DUES TO WORK THERE, you just didn't get the "protection" (Ha! Wasn't any) of the union and you weren't allowed to vote on union matters?

Now some one tell me....WTF is that?

Oh yeah...and if you quit, laid off, or even fired, you had to notify the union IN WRITING (member or not) otherwise if you were to be rehired you would be subject to all back dues accrued during you absence.

Thank God the unions can't unionize the occupation of "retirement!"

 

[Sparky481]

Unions DO force companies to pay their employees a certain wage. My stepdad owns a masonry company and has tried to go non-union. They are not able to because of the large fee they must pay to get out of the union (pensions, etc.). He is basically stuck being a union company and he is forced to pay the employees more than they are worth.

Unions also hurt the economy by wasting taxpayer money on government construction projects that the taxpayers could pay a non-union company half the cost of what a union company charges. I'm with a non-union commercial concrete company and we have done some government work in the past. We are forced to pay our guys prevailing wage (union wages) just to be able to do the project. This is a waste and takes money directly out of citizens' pockets.

you did do the right thing an sent the money back to Mitch, Right

 

[686 Shooter]

What I love about the United States is, I get to make choices. If I want to work for a union, I can seek employment at union shops. If I choose to be non-union, I can seek out employment at a non-union shops. I don't care what your choice is, just give me the freedom to choose what I think is right for me and I will give you the freedom to choose what is right for you.

 

[Roadie]

What I love about the United States is, I get to make choices. If I want to work for a union, I can seek employment at union shops. If I choose to be non-union, I can seek out employment at a non-union shops. I don't care what your choice is, just give me the freedom to choose what I think is right for me and I will give you the freedom to choose what is right for you.

Unless you say, work for Boeing, and you and your fellow employees overwhelmingly vote to de-unionize, however, the Government would rather shut down the plant, fire the employees, than accept it being non Union...