UPS lost a firearm that I shipped

[colts1982]

Okay so I traded a rifle to a guy for a aimpoint comp m4. Everything was going great until my ffl called me today to tell me ups lost the firearm. I shipped it to alaska and when it showed up there the box was open and the hard case and rifle that was in it was missing!! Hopefully it turns up but if it doesn't what are my options? And before I get a bunch of insurance questions I did insure it but only the standard I did not put extra on it. And I know sounds pretty dumb looking back on it!!! And yes I trust the ffl they are good people there.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't know the answer to your question but the first thing that popped into my mind was: how many people handled an opened box, big enough to contain a rifle, and it never dawned on them it was empty?

Good luck on your problem.

 

[AA&E]

I don't know the answer to your question but the first thing that popped into my mind was: how many people handled an opened box, big enough to contain a rifle, and it never dawned on them it was empty?

Good luck on your problem.

Doesn't matter. They were all government employees and the odds of finding one who give a crap is minimal.

 

[HHollow]

Doesn't matter. They were all government employees and the odds of finding one who give a crap is minimal.

USPS = us postal service
UPS = united parcel service

 

[Drail]

Be very glad you are not the FFL the gun was shipped to. The last FFL I worked for had a gun lost by UPS and when we notified the authorities the BATF showed up and wanted to go through our logbooks and search the premises. On a Sunday. They assumed we were holding out on them and kept "informing" us what would happen if they found the gun on our property. All we ever received was an empty box. The gun was eventually found on UPS property. Some UPS employee stole it and then decided he couldn't get it off the property and tossed it into an empty trailer. I am so glad i will never have to deal with those folks again. (UPS AND the BATF)

 

[Expat]

Options? Sounds like you will be shipping the Aimpoint back (suggest putting sufficient insurance to cover it this time) unless you can reach an agreed price to just buy it from the seller.
Good luck with UPS...

 

[PistolBob]

UPS has been a disappointment to me for decades. We never use them.

 

[223 Gunner]

I have often thought that insuring a package, is just a sign that says "steal me" I'm valuable.
I rarely insure items I ship for this very reason.

 

[jgreiner]

Okay so I traded a rifle to a guy for a aimpoint comp m4. Everything was going great until my ffl called me today to tell me ups lost the firearm. I shipped it to alaska and when it showed up there the box was open and the hard case and rifle that was in it was missing!! Hopefully it turns up but if it doesn't what are my options? And before I get a bunch of insurance questions I did insure it but only the standard I did not put extra on it. And I know sounds pretty dumb looking back on it!!! And yes I trust the ffl they are good people there.

They didn't lose it, it was stolen.

 

[jgreiner]

UPS has been a disappointment to me for decades. We never use them.

I only use FedEx

 

[223 Gunner]

They didn't lose it, it was stolen.

Agreed.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I have often thought that insuring a package, is just a sign that says "steal me" I'm valuable.
I rarely insure items I ship for this very reason.

In my experience, there is usually no distinctive markings on an insured (vs standard) box.

 

[avboiler11]

I've shipped numerous long guns with UPS; never had a problem.

I've also never had a problem shipping numerous long guns with USPS.

While it does sound like a theft situation (and trust me, UPS Security loves nothing more than catching and prosecuting a thieving employee), how secure was the box around the hard case? Is there a chance one side came open allowing the case to slide out, or did you tape the thing like a mother?

 

[17 squirrel]

In my experience, there is usually no distinctive markings on an insured (vs standard) box.

I ship UPS on a daily basis and I also have never seen any special marking for expensive product inside..
Now the address might clue them in, like.....
The Smokin Gun Trading Post....

 

[Compatriot G]

I also ship UPS on a daily basis. Standard insurance is $100. There are no distinctive markings for an insured package.

 

[dusty88]

I'd approach it as a likely theft, so UPS doesn't give you the "you didn't buy insurance, not our problem" approach.

Overall, I have far better performance from UPS both at home and at my business, as compared to USPS or FedEx, but there are bad eggs everywhere I guess.

What I have seen though is that any of these companies/agencies or their managers don't want to be involved in a legal situation. You may have to press to get it investigated as a theft.

A friend of mine who is a federal prosecutor said you should call the US Postal Inspection Service. That's not a misunderstanding. Even though this is UPS, when there are certain illegalities that involve couriered packages, the investigation is under the postal inspection service. You might have to go up the chain though because the first people that answer the phone will tell you that they aren't UPS... blah blah...
If you tell me what town the rifle was shipped from , and to, she may be able to get you a # to the appropriate regional office.

Actually she just sent me this by IM: said call this # and tell them it is an "emergency" since there is a missing firearm. I don't know how much of a PITA this is going to be for you, but I suppose it's a PITA no matter how you handle it.




My translation of her advice: I'd start with Postal Inspection (rather than the post office), *if* the postal inspector tells them to speak to the post office: I would ONLY speak to the postmaster at the post office. If no resolution, I'd hit ATF

https://www.atf.gov/contact/atf-field-divisions

Of course, she's a federal prosecutor so she is more comfortable in the federal system than the rest of us. But .... well anyway... just passing on the info. Better to deal with the feds by reporting it than have them come knocking on your door later.

 

[AA&E]

USPS = us postal service
UPS = united parcel service

Missed that. Thx

 

[Beowulf]

You definitely need to report the firearm stolen to the police, so that you can avoid any liability issues if it shows up at a crime scene. I had this happen to me 15 years ago or so when I had to ship a defective rifle back to Century Arms (shocker, there I know). UPS misplaced the rifle in the Indy hub (I lived in Lafayette at the time). I had some trouble getting a police agency to agree to jurisdiction to take the report. Both IMPD and Lafayette PD refused to take the report. I called the ATF and they were all interested until they found out it wasn't a full auto weapon, then they didn't care anymore. Finally, I got the Indiana State Police to take the report and put the rifle into the stolen gun system.

It took several months of wrangling to get UPS to pay out on the insurance and then magically, right before they were sending me the check, the rifle showed up in St. Louis at some UPS depot. So, it finally got to its destination (and to their credit, Century fixed it up and it ran fine after that).

So, get ready for a painful ride, but you should eventually get reimbursed (assuming you fully insured it).

 

[colts1982]

Ok to answer some questions. I put 4 large black zip ties going across the handle. At the shop I couldn't get the case to hardly open at all. And which local police do I contact? Here in Kokomo or up in Alaska where the empty cardboard box was discovered. And I agree to all that say it was stolen!

 

[ckcollins2003]

Okay so I traded a rifle to a guy for a aimpoint comp m4. Everything was going great until my ffl called me today to tell me ups lost the firearm. I shipped it to alaska and when it showed up there the box was open and the hard case and rifle that was in it was missing!! Hopefully it turns up but if it doesn't what are my options? And before I get a bunch of insurance questions I did insure it but only the standard I did not put extra on it. And I know sounds pretty dumb looking back on it!!! And yes I trust the ffl they are good people there.

If you haven't already, you need to call UPS and report it stolen, as well as the police. Since you are the shipper UPS declares you as the customer and since it is a firearm I would expect them to do something more than ask if you had insurance on it etc... let them know you are contacting the authorities and reporting it as stolen. UPS has a loss prevention team in place for things like this and they will also work with you. If you would like the cell number of the man in charge of loss prevention in this area send me a PM, going through him would be a better option than going through the UPS customer service center, because those people really don't give a flying crap about anything. Hopefully you kept the receipt and tracking number... that will help them contact the loss prevention in every hub that it went through and they will do an investigation at every one of them.

I don't know the answer to your question but the first thing that popped into my mind was: how many people handled an opened box, big enough to contain a rifle, and it never dawned on them it was empty?

Good luck on your problem.

Surprisingly, we ship a lot of empty boxes through the system. It's how returns from companies are sometimes handled. They ship the customer an empty box with a return tag inside of it... so a big empty box is not at all alarming to anyone. I've loaded trailers for 8 years and I load empty boxes every single day.