Video: Proof that Concealed Carry Permit Holders Live in a Dream World

[Davis0023]

Why is campus any different than any other crowded place where there might be LTCH holders?
Mickey D's
Walmart
Any mall
Any downtown

Your point is made and although on princple I can't disagree. However there are many more factors that come into play here. I will stick to the one I feel is closer to the top of that list.
You have a govering body, that controls the rules within their defined space. So to convince this govering body your going to have to elimnate as many of their "but's" and "what about's" as you can. I.e experinced, trained, insured, etc.should be allowed to carry for their saftey as well as others.
You not only do you have to convince the school, but the parents whom may or may no longer send their childeren to this school.
This is not as much about what right, or whose right. It's about playing ball in their leagaue, on field, with their ref's. and in front of fan base that mostly has bought into their line of thinking.( excuse the sport reference, but they work well.) You also have to rememeber that its also a business and since alot of the staff, students and their parents lean a liitle toward "no guns, means safe place" this is where the rules are going to keep going/stay.
This is why I make the above original post and this follow up statements, and I can speak with uttmost experince of being on a campus from all points involved. Staff, Student and L.E. And as I always end with...this is just my two cents.

 

[IndyGunner]

All the people who were given the fake gun were like ZOMGZ I HAVE A GUN... clearly not a typical carrier. Aside from the fact that the shooter knew who had it the entire time.

BS

 

[HICKMAN]

indeed...we live off blood

I wonder how many posts down the road this will spark the same old debate

wager?

heh, you know my constant point.

NOBODY knows what they are going to do, until it happens to them the first time.

 

[HICKMAN]

Force the student to sit in the same spot, dead center of the class, in a LONG eversized shirt. Set up for failure.

 

[elaw555]

I believe it came out that the "attackers" were briefed on where the armed "student" was sitting. The video seems to bear that out when the "attacker" sweeps past 25 unarmed targets to shoot the one that was armed even though the gun was caught in his oversized shirt and not even remotely visible to the "attacker" yet. Further proof is seen when the armed student ducks behind the desk in the front row. The weapon is still not visible to the "attacker" when the armed student ducks below the desk. The attacker then ignores all visible targets, and out of the 4 or 5 front row students who ducked behind desks, focuses in on the one who happens to be armed.

MSM media bias at its best.

 

[Kisada]

The shirts they have the cc's wear cracks me up every time I've seen this. I mean, I'm 6'4", so I could totally see myself wearing those shirts, but a 2XL-tall men's shirt on a girl who normally wouldn't wear anything a third that size? Come on... even on the guys they looked like dresses.

 

[cwillour]

Force the student to sit in the same spot, dead center of the class, in a LONG eversized shirt. Set up for failure.

First row too -- that way the instructor can see them over the barrier.

What I learned is that if I pick the wrong seat and am the secondary target of a highly trained assassin (especially one who is heavily body-armored or otherwise knows that my rounds would not be fatal for whatever reason), I have limited chance at success.

FWIW, I thought the students carrying actually did a good job of reducing the overall casualties. Think of how many "students" made it out the doors as the instructor was engaging the carrier vs the number that would have died had the instructor been able to trap the students in the room by focusing on covering the exits first.

 

[esrice]

NOBODY knows what they are going to do, until it happens to them the first time.

Not exactly true.

The first time I was held up at gunpoint I died. But I learned a very valuable lesson and so I didn't die the next time I had a similar encounter. I knew what to do and I did it. In fact, it was easier to do that second time.

Ahh the benefits of FoF.

 

[OneBadV8]

If only he used a proper draw stroke in the first one and cleared his cover garment.

And it sounds like his only experience was shooting at a range. Not actually drawing a gun.

 

[Glock19]

It doesnt help that the shooter goes in shoots the teacher, THEN goes right for the student with a gun. The gunman wouldnt know which student had a gun on him more than likely...

 

[fullmetaljesus]

All the people who were given the fake gun were like ZOMGZ I HAVE A GUN... clearly not a typical carrier. Aside from the fact that the shooter knew who had it the entire time.

BS

Notice how that one guy was all like "hey i have a gun" to the chick sitting next to him.

 

[rhino]

If you read accounts from witnesses of such shootings, one of the common elements that I remember is that the shooters are deliberate and for lack of a better phrase, slow acting. I'm not suggesting that such "dynamic" assasinations don't occur, just that for the scenario this was supposed to represent (like the Luby's Cafeteria shooting, the Virginia Tech Shooting, Columbine, etc.), slow and deliberate is how things really happened.
Under those circumstances, a person with the means to defend has more time to observe, orient, decide, and act. That's the kind of scenario that would have been a more intellectually honest representation of what they claimed they were showing.

 

[MeatyBacchus]

This only applies if you carry a Sigma.

Carry on.

 

[Jackson]

My point in posting this was not to critique their obviously biased "study" scenario. Clearly the participants were set up to fail. It is obvious they are using the "study" to further their anti-carry agenda. However, I think video does have two valid points:

1. Most of the issues they mention surrounding a violent encounter are real. Things like tunnel vision, loss of some fine motor skills, need to practice and refine draw stroke so it can be automatic and not fumbled, training to observe and implement Rule 4 (target foreground and background), moving targets, etc are real. They need to be considered and accounted for in a practice and training regimen.

2. Many gun owners have an inflated sense of their abilities. [--The video runs way too far and draws wild conclusions on this. However, it is still true to some degree.--] They think owning a gun and going to the range will get them through, that it is enough. The two individuals in the scenario who had some actual experience (the guy with "hundreds of hours of range time" and the AirSoft player) both performed poorly because they were not practicing the right things. They were not preparing themselves to carry and use a firearm in a fight. They really pushed this idea in the video. And while it was exaggerated and based on a biased and poor scenario, I see it demonstrated all the time on gun boards like this.

The "study" and scenario were ridiculous. But the points they made in the video were real and should be considered.

 

[esrice]

2. Many gun owners have an inflated sense of their abilities.

I was one of those.

FoF really drives home the lesson that decision-making is SOO important to such scenarios. Not just gun-handling and marksmanship alone.

 

[cobber]

A better experiment would have been to send use one of the students as the shooter, without disclosing who the CCer is. Do it multiple times, maybe randomize and do a few without any CCers, a few with a single CCer, and a few with multiple CCers. I'd bet the results would be very different.

But that would not prove the point ABC was trying to prove, would it?


Someone ought to do the above experiment and post it to YouTube. Might be the best argument against the GFZ yet.

 

[Shay]

I was one of those.

FoF really drives home the lesson that decision-making is SOO important to such scenarios. Not just gun-handling and marksmanship alone.

So many people carry guns every day and don't understand what you just wrote and why it is important.

 

[duffman0286]

however they dont tell they targeted the one with the gun.... in real life the shooter would have to locate the gunman from others... they where setup to fail even the best shooter in the world would fail a test like this

 

[Trav43]

It would be hard for anyone to react to a guy busting into a room, with his gun out already and having a good idea of targets that are going to fight back.

 

[williamrights]

Ok here is my 2 cents. Would it not be interesting to then have the cop sit in the same seat and say now here is how a cop would handle the situation. I would like to see if the cop knowing exactly what was going to happen would keep a watch on the door which no one would normally do. Would he tuck in the shirt would he keep his hand on the gun would he expose it and "be ready". Then just have the guy behind him be the assailant and silently pull his gun and shoot the cop in the head proving he seems nervous and fidgety and obviously cannot handle his gun properly or help in the situation. Lesson from this would be cops should not carry a gun anywhere because someone might execute them. Is the sarcasm thick enough because I am new at it but can add some cornstarch to thicken it.