**WE** know not to talk to the police...do your children?

[Denny347]

Happens all the time. School officals act on statements from students.

They call in LEOs to act on student statements to avoid the "rights wavier " forms or question the student in front of the LEO to avoid it.

Have you had a school call and not acted on an officals statement to you?

That is the same for ANY adult. Any adult witness (to the actual crime or confession) is enough for an arrest of a juvenile. Any private citizen adult can question a juvenile and then call the police to turn them in for an arrest. They do not carry the same weight in court as a confession to LE and are not considered the same.

Read this article. http://www.dphilpotlaw.com/html/interrogation_of_juveniles.html
The school official CANNOT act on behalf of LE to "get around" the waiver. If they do, any statements are inadmissible in court.

 

[JetGirl]

This young girl gets an early lesson. Charges were dropped but it doesn't erase his daughters memory and experience with them.

Truly.
Several years back, I think MiniJet was about 13 or 14 at the time...she'd stayed after school to practice some band stuff with part of the nerd herd. After they were finished, some of them (about five, including herself) were going to walk to the library together. On the other side of the street, coming from the opposite direction was a group of about 10 older kids that were following (and yelling at) a group of about 10 or so similarly aged kids (who were walking away from the yellers). Cops rolled up and stated that they'd been called about "gang fight" activity...and four more cars pulled up.
The nerd herd had no idea what was going on, other than hearing yelling ping ponging from group to group...but they were detained as being part of it since they were a group of kids in the vicinity.

You just really don't know what your kid will do without you present if the cops question them. Mine said, "that has nothing to do with us, we're just walking" and started to continue toward the library street, but was told "we know you're involved, so you wait right there."

Yeah, they knew exactly what was what.
She gave her name and then started to call me. All the kids were told to put their phones away or lose them.
The cops moved on to questioning the yellers (who apparently were throwing stuff, too) and then announced to everyone (including the nerd herd), "we have all your names and all your addresses and your parents WILL be getting a visit tonight." (Which never did happen).

I did contact the dept and ask why they were told to stay put, asked their names if they weren't doing anything but walking past the disturbance, and told their phones would be confiscated...
They said the kids were probably just told that to keep them from A) leaving before being questioned. B) calling more friends to start more trouble. C) we're not sure, so we'll ask the officers in question and get back to you.

The point is, the whole thing stayed with her. She went into it thinking the cops showing up was "probably a good thing" (to deal with real troublemakers), she came out of it thinking something else.

Now I make her CC donuts...just in case.

 

[Fletch]

The point is, the whole thing stayed with her. She went into it thinking the cops showing up was "probably a good thing" (to deal with real troublemakers), she came out of it thinking something else.

And on the flip side, I was foster parent to a real troublemaker back in the mid-90's. She was on a first-name basis with the local cops, but they never actually did anything to her, so the lesson she learned is that cops are a joke. When she continued operating on that belief through the rest of her teenage years, she eventually got the rough treatment from the police, and learned that they're thugs. When she became an adult and got beaten up by her boyfriend, they did nothing to him, so she learned they're useless.

I'm well aware of the fact that I failed her as a parent. But I wonder if the police organizations she's met are in any way cognizant of how they failed to sell the idea of police being a positive force in society.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And on the flip side, I was foster parent to a real troublemaker back in the mid-90's. She was on a first-name basis with the local cops, but they never actually did anything to her, so the lesson she learned is that cops are a joke. When she continued operating on that belief through the rest of her teenage years, she eventually got the rough treatment from the police, and learned that they're thugs. When she became an adult and got beaten up by her boyfriend, they did nothing to him, so she learned they're useless.

I'm well aware of the fact that I failed her as a parent. But I wonder if the police organizations she's met are in any way cognizant of how they failed to sell the idea of police being a positive force in society.

So the question I'd like to ask you, is who should have been the more important factor in her life, you, the parent, or the police?

 

[Fletch]

So the question I'd like to ask you, is who should have been the more important factor in her life, you, the parent, or the police?

Without a doubt, me. And I did everything I knew how to do at the time. When it came to the actual crimes she committed though, I tried to get the police to keep her in jail overnight or something, to help me send the message that there are some forces in society that I couldn't protect her from. But no, they wanted to clear their task list and move on. So she'd come home, get yelled at and grounded, and be back at it just a little while later.

When she eventually got beaten up and had to live in a shelter for a while with no job, a new baby, and no means of support, I was the one sending her a check every month. Like I said, I did everything I knew how to do at the time, every time it's fallen to me to do something. I failed her in a lot of ways, mostly due to youthful naivete and inexperience, but the only thing I'm ashamed of is giving up on her.

It's entirely possible that nothing would have straightened her up until she was good and ready to straighten herself up, as eventually happened. My only statement is that if police exist to do something about crime, then it seems to me that she/I should be able to expect them to do something about crime.

 

[dross]

So the question I'd like to ask you, is who should have been the more important factor in her life, you, the parent, or the police?

C'mon, man, you don't know the answer to your own question from a post like that?

What is it about being a cop that causes a defensive reaction to any criticism whatsoever?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Without a doubt, me. And I did everything I knew how to do at the time. When it came to the actual crimes she committed though, I tried to get the police to keep her in jail overnight or something, to help me send the message that there are some forces in society that I couldn't protect her from. But no, they wanted to clear their task list and move on. So she'd come home, get yelled at and grounded, and be back at it just a little while later.

When she eventually got beaten up and had to live in a shelter for a while with no job, a new baby, and no means of support, I was the one sending her a check every month. Like I said, I did everything I knew how to do at the time, every time it's fallen to me to do something. I failed her in a lot of ways, mostly due to youthful naivete and inexperience, but the only thing I'm ashamed of is giving up on her.

It's entirely possible that nothing would have straightened her up until she was good and ready to straighten herself up, as eventually happened. My only statement is that if police exist to do something about crime, then it seems to me that she/I should be able to expect them to do something about crime.

I can appreciate your sentiment. My parents were foster parents for a while, and I know that's an insanely difficult job. Some kids are bad apples that simply can't be fixed. It's tough when you pour your heart out into a kid and they end up pure fail.
I admit I was a lil butthurt at you calling the officers she dealt with "jokes, thugs, and worthless", because they didn't leave a better impression on her. That's interesting given the amount of people that are 100% certain that they don't want their kids talking to police. I'm big on parents being parents because good parents typically have kids that 10 years down the road, I won't have to worry about. Now foster kids are an entirely different monster.
I sincerely commend you for giving your time trying to be a positive influence in a child's life that didn't "spring from you lions." It's often a thankless job. However, give the copper buttons a lil slack. In the technical sense, it's not our job to raise someone else's kids. Personally I give a ton of time talking to boy scouts, going to schools, and talking about bike safety. I like kids and I want them to have a positive view of LE. Yet, I know all the things I do, I do because I'm civic minded, not because it's part of my job description (which it isnt).

And Fyi, I wouldn't say her failures were yours.

 

[Kutnupe14]

C'mon, man, you don't know the answer to your own question from a post like that?

What is it about being a cop that causes a defensive reaction to any criticism whatsoever?

No, it's not cops, it's me. I get butthurt easily.
I don't like things in my butt.

 

[CarmelHP]

I'm well aware of the fact that I failed her as a parent.

Unfortunately, it's a skill that doesn't come naturally. It's probably the biggest responsibility one will have, and it's so easy to fail at it. You have my respect for trying.

 

[Fletch]

Personally I give a ton of time talking to boy scouts, going to schools, and talking about bike safety. I like kids and I want them to have a positive view of LE.

And I think this is all good -- an unmitigated positive.

But kids in scouts and bike safety classes seem to me like they're more than likely on the positive end of the spectrum. I'm wishing for something more to help out the kids who are on the negative end. As I'm preparing for my adoption, I've been doing a fair amount of reading lately about kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder, and that is some damned scary stuff. Without adequate intervention, it's easy to see them growing up into real, honest-to-God sociopaths. I think it's unrealistic to expect any set of parents to be able to handle that on their own. Eventually such kids are going to be society's problem, by which I mean police problems.

I don't know if the girl I had was a RAD kid, but she had a lot of similar characteristics -- perhaps a difference in degree, not in kind. I don't believe in bad kids -- they're just kids, they don't know any better. The limits they need to learn are limits that all of us are responsible for showing them.

I meant no disrespect in saying what she learned from her interactions with police -- I just wanted to illustrate her perspective. As far as I know, it remains her perspective. She doesn't actively disrespect the police, but she doesn't really want them around either. The last time we visited, she was a happy young mom doing the best she can with what she's got. But if you're paying close attention to her, there's a shadow that falls over her face whenever a cop would drive by or the police would be brought up in conversation. She doesn't think they exist to help people like her, and that's a shame.

 

[dross]

No, it's not cops, it's me. I get butthurt easily.
I don't like things in my butt.

It's okay, man. We're all fragile flowers. Me too, and I'm totally with you on the things in the butt thing.

 

[Ramen]

...
I admit I was a lil butthurt at you calling the officers she dealt with "jokes, thugs, and worthless", because they didn't leave a better impression on her. That's interesting given the amount of people that are 100% certain that they don't want their kids talking to police. I'm big on parents being parents because good parents typically have kids that 10 years down the road, I won't have to worry about. Now foster kids are an entirely different monster.
...

I didn't read it as him calling those police officers those names. He was conveying her perspective from his neutral position. That is why he put it in quotations.

 

[squirrelhntr]

Kinda like Switzerland, neutral.

they might be neutral if the tax payer did'nt pay em, support em, feed em, cloth em, ect. ect...... their leash is gettin to long.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I didn't read it as him calling those police officers those names. He was conveying her perspective from his neutral position. That is why he put it in quotations.

In retrospect and after talking to him, I don't believe that either.

 

[Spazzmodicus]

The best tool, we as police officers have, is the information the public provides. If one can be certain that they are not the subject of interest in an investigation, then why not talk if you have relevant info?

Because I've seen a number of people taken into custody who were NOT the subject of investigation after saying the wrong things. It seems like some leo's can't wait to arrest somebody....anybody. I've heard them say with my own ears "if I have to get called someplace then somebody's going to jail".

 

[Kutnupe14]

Because I've seen a number of people taken into custody who were NOT the subject of investigation after saying the wrong things. It seems like some leo's can't wait to arrest somebody....anybody. I've heard them say with my own ears "if I have to get called someplace then somebody's going to jail".

For instance? It's pretty hard to generate PC on the spot.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

they might be neutral if the tax payer did'nt pay em, support em, feed em, cloth em, ect. ect...... their leash is gettin to long.

If you feed me and clothe me you're doing a ****ty job. I'm hungry and I haven't been able to afford new jeans for 6 months.

 

[jsharmon7]

If you feed me and clothe me you're doing a ****ty job. I'm hungry and I haven't been able to afford new jeans for 6 months.

I think he needs to make you a sammich.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I think he needs to make you a sammich.

A sammich would be nice.

 

[Rayne]

If you feed me and clothe me you're doing a ****ty job. I'm hungry and I haven't been able to afford new jeans for 6 months.

I personally haven't had a bad run in with an LEO, that has scarred me... I tend to like them. So Frank, what kind of samwich would you like. Ham or Turkey? How about a piece of homemade apple pie, or would you prefer cherry or peach? Sorry I don't do doughnuts or doughnut jokes