What makes a good club level stage?

[BillD]

I don't care for gratitious movement, memory stages or COF's that don't flow (Like Area 5). I don't mind movement and like to shoot on the move but turning the COF into a foot race...well, it's usually done by a COF designer to play to his own strengths.

 

[jakemartens]

Stages that will not discourage lower class shooters and challenge higher classed shooters
moving while shooting
options
speed shoots that have risk vs reward
stages that present targets from different angles, not exactly a memory stage, but something you have to get a plan, not just the old 8, 8, 8, 8

Everyone should be offering to draw up some stages for their local matches, offering to come set it up.
MD's sometime can get stuck in the same "rhythm" of stages, or just use the same pattern of fault line, walls and move targets around, where you end up feeling like you have shot this before....

trying to plan out 8-9 matches for the year is having to come up with 40-50 stages.

 

[rhino]

That is one of the great things about USPSA, it's freestyle! If you want to shoot the stages without a walk through, you can, that is your choice.

That's what I do most of the time. Mostly it's because I am lazy! HAHA!

 

[rhino]

I don't care for gratitious movement, memory stages or COF's that don't flow (Like Area 5). I don't mind movement and like to shoot on the move but turning the COF into a foot race...well, it's usually done by a COF designer to play to his own strengths.

In years past, some of the the bigger matches always had at least one stage where you shot some targets, then had to run (move anyway) a long, long way without any opportunity to shoot anything just to get to two or at most three targets behind a wall. It was stupid.

 

[CB45]

Stages that will not discourage lower class shooters and challenge higher classed shooters
moving while shooting
options
speed shoots that have risk vs reward
stages that present targets from different angles, not exactly a memory stage, but something you have to get a plan, not just the old 8, 8, 8, 8

Everyone should be offering to draw up some stages for their local matches, offering to come set it up.
MD's sometime can get stuck in the same "rhythm" of stages, or just use the same pattern of fault line, walls and move targets around, where you end up feeling like you have shot this before....

trying to plan out 8-9 matches for the year is having to come up with 40-50 stages.

Over the last year I've submitted about 40 stages to various Indiana clubs. About half of them have been used. Of those stages, half of them were good. Good stages are hard to design.

I encourage folks to get involved at a local club and help. This is a volunteer hobby.

 

[Cowboy1629]

I just like to shoot things!

 

[mongo404]

I just like to shoot things!

Then you would probably have a lot more fun if you would hit what you are shooting at.. just saying

 

[ViperJock]

A good match stage is something that I can't easily do by myself at the range. If I can, what's the point of paying the entry fee and coming at a specific time? I'll do it when it's cheaper and more convenient.

A lot of ranges don't allow movement, "rapid" fire, and shooting from a draw so I like to see all of those elements as a baseline. I like interesting targets such as swingers and Texas stars. I've also had fun with moving/rocking shooting platforms. Stages that teach a new type of shooting/defensive skill or that are "practical" are also fun. There should be enough skill to let the masters kick my ass but not so much that I get discouraged with all the super hard targets. Create a match in which the scores are a bell curve with the median in the B range.

One be thing that ticks me off is going to a rifle match that is decided by tough pistol shots. If it's a rifle match and you want to throw some handgun in, fine--I have no problem with that, BUT the skill portion should be rifle not crazy long hand gun shots. Save those for handgun matches.

If it's too easy the high masters won't come, if it's too hard the new shooters will get discouraged.

Rules of the sport and rules of engagement shouldn't be so restrictive you can't do whatever the tactically sound thing to do is.

 

[rhino]

Oh, I forgot: fixed time courses of fire suck a**. Yeah, they're a great challenge for the highly skilled shooters, but most of them are really frustrating for people like me when we don't get half of the shots fired, much less misses.

 

[Coach]

Oh, I forgot: fixed time courses of fire suck a**. Yeah, they're a great challenge for the highly skilled shooters, but most of them are really frustrating for people like me when we don't get half of the shots fired, much less misses.

It seems like there may be a variety of issues here impacting your view of fixed time stages. They have to be properly planned. Kind of like shotgun side matches.

 

[sv40sw45]

Any stage I don't have to DRAW UP or SET UP!!!!!

 

[Cameramonkey]

As a green competitor, I'd say club levels should be fun. No gotchas, etc.

And you could certainly make a blind CoF as long as it's simple and doesn't have targets that are easily missed I would think. Or you have a "no backup, forward motion only" rule? (missed it? Tough take the miss and move on) or is that asking too much?

and could you make one set of targets random as a compromise between totally blind and totally known CoF? For example:

Three targets behind the cover of a barrel wall and one no shoot, with the no shoot moved (or not) in front of one of the three random targets. Only the paster knows where it will be for the next shooter. You get to the last set of targets, and don't know where the no shoot is until you stick your head around the obstruction due to how the wall is placed relative to the rest of the course.

 

[riverman67]

The courses of fire have to be the same for each shooter.you can state forbidden actions in the stage description but its frowned upon.the main use of the forbidden action is to enhance safety. Uspsa is supposed to be freestyle

 

[blkrifle]

As a green competitor, I'd say club levels should be fun. No gotchas, etc.

And you could certainly make a blind CoF as long as it's simple and doesn't have targets that are easily missed I would think. Or you have a "no backup, forward motion only" rule? (missed it? Tough take the miss and move on) or is that asking too much?

and could you make one set of targets random as a compromise between totally blind and totally known CoF? For example:

Three targets behind the cover of a barrel wall and one no shoot, with the no shoot moved (or not) in front of one of the three random targets. Only the paster knows where it will be for the next shooter. You get to the last set of targets, and don't know where the no shoot is until you stick your head around the obstruction due to how the wall is placed relative to the rest of the course.

interesting reading here: Welcome to USPSA.org - Home of the United States Practical Shooting Association
freestyle= you can wander around the course all you want....its nothing but time added to your score

 

[Rob377]

As a green competitor, I'd say club levels should be fun. No gotchas, etc.

And you could certainly make a blind CoF as long as it's simple and doesn't have targets that are easily missed I would think. Or you have a "no backup, forward motion only" rule? (missed it? Tough take the miss and move on) or is that asking too much?

and could you make one set of targets random as a compromise between totally blind and totally known CoF? For example:

Three targets behind the cover of a barrel wall and one no shoot, with the no shoot moved (or not) in front of one of the three random targets. Only the paster knows where it will be for the next shooter. You get to the last set of targets, and don't know where the no shoot is until you stick your head around the obstruction due to how the wall is placed relative to the rest of the course.

That sort of thing actually wouldn't be without precedent, surprisingly enough. The 1993 World shoot did it.

World Shoot X 1993 - YouTube

 

[romack991]

That sort of thing actually wouldn't be without precedent, surprisingly enough. The 1993 World shoot did it.

World Shoot X 1993 - YouTube

That's pretty cool.

 

[CB45]

As a green competitor, I'd say club levels should be fun. No gotchas, etc.

And you could certainly make a blind CoF as long as it's simple and doesn't have targets that are easily missed I would think. Or you have a "no backup, forward motion only" rule? (missed it? Tough take the miss and move on) or is that asking too much?

and could you make one set of targets random as a compromise between totally blind and totally known CoF? For example:

Three targets behind the cover of a barrel wall and one no shoot, with the no shoot moved (or not) in front of one of the three random targets. Only the paster knows where it will be for the next shooter. You get to the last set of targets, and don't know where the no shoot is until you stick your head around the obstruction due to how the wall is placed relative to the rest of the course.

I don't get it. You start off nay-saying "Gotcha" stages, then you dream up moving target arrays around between shooters. Total 180 bipolar stuff going on right there.

If you want to understand the sport, I suggest you sign up for a RO class. That will help you interpret the rules, stage design, RO and Shooter expectations, etc...

 

[Cameramonkey]

I don't get it. You start off nay-saying "Gotcha" stages, then you dream up moving target arrays around between shooters. Total 180 bipolar stuff going on right there.

If you want to understand the sport, I suggest you sign up for a RO class. That will help you interpret the rules, stage design, RO and Shooter expectations, etc...

Simmer down; you missed my point. There is a difference between a gotcha, and a known, blind target configured within a specific set of parameters. In my mind, a gotcha is as one person stated... multiple swingers, insane targets, etc. Something designed to drive down scores on purpose and make it harder than it needs to be.

The problem stated with blind targets (RVB's first point in Post 11) is that its hard to keep them truly blind due to those that have seen it and may spill the beans. I was just spitballing a way to keep a portion of the CoF truly blind to make it interesting, without being too hard to pull off. You know at one point you are going to have three targets, one will be partially obscured by a no shoot. But which one? Without knowing EXACTLY how the targets are laid out you cant completely visualize what you are going to do as you lean around that cover. its not a gotcha if you know its coming and in and of itself is not difficult.

And relax. I'm not trying to completely understand stage design... just throwing out ideas as a novice as prefaced in my post. Sometimes the best ideas come from someone who through ignorance, thinks outside the box on accident because they dont know where the sides of the box are.

Or did I miss the OP's caveat that comments were only welcome from experts who have attended a RO class and completely understand the sport in every possible way?

 

[BillD]

Simmer down; you missed my point. There is a difference between a gotcha, and a known, blind target configured within a specific set of parameters. In my mind, a gotcha is as one person stated... multiple swingers, insane targets, etc. Something designed to drive down scores on purpose and make it harder than it needs to be.

The problem stated with blind targets (RVB's first point in Post 11) is that its hard to keep them truly blind due to those that have seen it and may spill the beans. I was just spitballing a way to keep a portion of the CoF truly blind to make it interesting, without being too hard to pull off. You know at one point you are going to have three targets, one will be partially obscured by a no shoot. But which one? Without knowing EXACTLY how the targets are laid out you cant completely visualize what you are going to do as you lean around that cover. its not a gotcha if you know its coming and in and of itself is not difficult.

And relax. I'm not trying to completely understand stage design... just throwing out ideas as a novice as prefaced in my post. Sometimes the best ideas come from someone who through ignorance, thinks outside the box on accident because they dont know where the sides of the box are.

Or did I miss the OP's caveat that comments were only welcome from experts who have attended a RO class and completely understand the sport in every possible way?

Well, what you suggest is against USPSA rules, so yeah, you missed it.

 

[ViperJock]

Or did I miss the OP's caveat that comments were only welcome from experts who have attended a RO class and completely understand the sport in every possible way?

And oh, make sure you don't joke about this game or the whole thread goes sideways!

Bottom line; a local match should be fun. Challenging, but not so much that it isn't fun. If people want to be ninjas they should take a class where they use "bust 'em" instead of a buzzer and call the cardboard "tangos" instead of "targets."