Why are .380s so darn quirky?

[Mgderf]

My bet is it's a combination of issues, differing from person-to-person and firearm.
The little .380's of today are too small for a lot of hands to properly grip. This, combimed with the fact that the .380 round is inherently a little "snappy", and you tend to get a lot of limp wrist caused issues.

My Bersa Thunder has not had a single problem, not matter who shoots it, but I did find my accuracy improved when I added the extended magazine butt plate. It gives my little finger something to hold onto, and I think this helps improve my control.
On the other hand, I had a little Taurus TCP .380 that I could not get to feed more than 3 consecutive rounds, no matter who shot it, or which ammo was used.

 

[VERT]

Ok so we know that light polymer framed guns like Glocks have more limp wrist issues because there is less mass for the gun to reciprocate against. Is it really as simple as the little pocket rockets suffer from being just too darn small? I would agree with that. Although I have fired plenty of heavier metal 380s that were picky eaters. Possibly because of the blow back action?

 

[searpinski]

My guess would be that the market demands these pistols are extremely small. With that demand, issues arise from manufacturing.

 

[oldguyguns]

Have a great little Taurus 380 revolver. Other than having to use moon clips --it's great.

 

[Leadeye]

Beretta 84
Interarms Walther
Colt 1908

All work fine.

 

[Indyelmo]

600 plus rounds through my Glock 42 and only FTE 1.5 times ...

 

[cedartop]

Ok so we know that light polymer framed guns like Glocks have more limp wrist issues because there is less mass for the gun to reciprocate against. Is it really as simple as the little pocket rockets suffer from being just too darn small? I would agree with that. Although I have fired plenty of heavier metal 380s that were picky eaters. Possibly because of the blow back action?

I tend to agree with the size thing. We have a CZ83 that never had and issue. It is of course a large heavy gun to be a .380 though. As far as limp wristing, I am not so sure. People seem to blame that a lot when I am not sure it is the case. My wife was having problems with our Glock 42 feeding. Of course I thought it was limp wristing because the gun is 100% for me. SO I took it and shot it one handed holding it as loose as I could without it falling to the ground. Not one issue with it through four mags of holding it that way. A real head scratcher.

 

[Indyelmo]

I have shot WWB , Remington , Lawman And 15 plus yr old blazer I think I cant remember ..

 

[NHT3]

As things get smaller in any semi-auto timing becomes a more critical issue.. 3.5" 1911s are generally much more prone to malfunctions than a 5" guns because of the timing. Having said that I have a G-42 that I've put 100 rounds of Blazer brass through with no signs of trouble. Also the least felt recoil of an small 380 I've ever fired.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-- [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&quot] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer

 

[halfmileharry]

I tend to agree with the size thing. We have a CZ83 that never had and issue. It is of course a large heavy gun to be a .380 though. As far as limp wristing, I am not so sure. People seem to blame that a lot when I am not sure it is the case. My wife was having problems with our Glock 42 feeding. Of course I thought it was limp wristing because the gun is 100% for me. SO I took it and shot it one handed holding it as loose as I could without it falling to the ground. Not one issue with it through four mags of holding it that way. A real head scratcher.

I can have failure to feed on an 870. Second shot trigger pull falls on an empty chamber. I shoot a lot of pumps and the 870 is the only one I do this on. I'm sure I don't limp wrist an 870. I don't have this issue on any other pump. I've even video'd myself shooting them and can't find the issue. Some things just don't work as intended for some people? Of course I'm guessing.

 

[Bocock]

I love my CZ82 in 9x18MAK. It will eat anything. My Mauser HsC in 380 is super finicky.

 

[snowwalker]

I have a Bersa Thunder Plus and have had zero issues with it. I don't have much use for it now and has not been shot for over a year, but is a very reliable gun.

 

[96firephoenix]

only problems with the Walther PK380 has been operator error.

I have noticed that the short barrel and loose mechanism are not conducive to precision shooting, but overall, it will hit COM at 10 yards, and thats what we bought it for.

 

[avboiler11]

I've never had any reliability issues with a Colt Mustang, PPK/S, Sig 230 or 232.

Generally run WWB for cheap ammo, and Federal JHPs for carry ammo.

 

[bigretic]

My sig p238 has never had any issues with ANY kind of ammo including my reloads. 100% rock solid. I don't have near as many rounds through my P230, but it has not given me any issues either.
Had an AMT backup that was a horrible piece of camel dung. Would not cycle more than 2 shots. Gone.
Beretta 84 - Zero problems as well.
Bodyguard - needs factory ammo or reloads at 3.0 grains (unique) or higher to cycle correctly.
Same goes for the DB 380.

Just picked up a 42. Ran herters select perfect, ran fiocci hollow points perfect. Had extract and feed issues with my reloads. This was clearly a charge issue and the slide not going back far enough. But all my reloads are on the bottom of the scale purposely.

 

[indiucky]

3) smaller pistols, I am beginning to think timing and such in small guns is tricky

I think that is the one...Massad Ayoob did an article once (kind of tongue in cheek) as to why Maxwell Smart was a better armed Secret Agent than James Bond and he used that whole premise to make the argument in favor of a J frame Smith over a Compact Walther...."Get Smart" had a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard in .38 special and Bond carried a Walther PPK....The J frame came out ahead in the tests Ayoob did and the gist of it is that there are a whole lot of things happening mechanically in the PPK that lessens the reliability of the weapon....I think there is some merit to that....

IMHO ofcourse....

 

[JollyMon]

I had one stove pipe with my p238... I blamed it on the break in period as it was only 200-400 rounds in and I just switched to a new type of ammo (though I may have limp wristed it) ... but after that one instance it has ran flawlessly.

 

[looney2ns]

The only problems I ever had with either of my LCP's was with WWB ammo or with my reloads using WIN brass. Otherwise over 1000rnds through mine of over 500 through my wife's.

WWB does not have consistent powder charges. They are all over the map.
WIN brass is not up to SAMMI spec on top of that.

 

[VERT]

Not being critical but I see a lot of responses about .380s all working gone except with certain ammo. Wouldn't this by definition be a gun that is quirky? Seems many of these guns are picky eaters. The same argument can be made about the 1911 but in that situation we have wide variation in age, manufactures, tolerance and even magazines. The quintessential small .380 or pocket gun, which is what is favored amongst the CCW crowd, have relatively few manufactures and specific parts/magazines. So what gives?

it would appear mid sized guns fair better as do the metal guns. (Sig 238, Bersa Thunder, PPK, etc.)

Couple responses from experienced people talking about size. Yes ladies size does apparently matter.

I know that 380 out of short barrels is criticized as being a bit puny. Also short barrel autos in general seem to cause problems. My new reformed opinion is that autos with less then 3.25" barrels are officially off my list.

 

[lovemachine]

Just curious. How does the short barrel 9mm "pocket size" guns compare in "quirkiness" to the 380s?

I've not read where the small 9mm's have the same amount of problems like the 380's.