Why haven't you taken a training class?

[venenoindy]

My work schedule is very hectic and I work most weekends when a lot of the classes are.

 

[mammynun]

The military covers a lot of territory. Depending on job and unit, you may never touch a pistol. You may be issued one and qualified as an "expert" but really have only the barest idea of how to effectively use a pistol **raises hand** and not know what you don't know until you see other people doing it right or get outside training. Or, you could be highly trained and extremely proficient. It just depends.

Particularly Cold War era military, but again based on job and unit, there was nearly zero training on recognizing body language, pre-attack indicators, etc. The military has since realized that deficiency in training as it's incredibly helpful in insurgency combat, with initiatives like the Combat Hunter program. That translates EXTREMELY well into street survival, as pre-attack indicators can alert you to a mugging before it kicks off just as easily as it can alert you to a suicide bomber before he detonates.

There are also things unique to the military that do not translate well when you are not in a small unit, are using a completely different set of rules as far as RoE, etc.

As such, while I learned many valuable things in the military, I would have been ill advised to stop my training there. I believe I've learned far more in terms of street encounters due to my LE training, LE experience (such as taking armed suspects at gun point and continuously evaluating shoot/no-shoot), and keeping accounts of civilian vs criminal encounters through my work than I ever learned in the military.

There are many, many people who have something to teach me. The trick is finding those people who are experts, who are experienced, and who stay in their lane of expertise.

As an 11B2P (1984-90), I agree 100% with this assessment. I hadn't really considered this until a similar discussion during a class with John McPhee. Thinking back, I realized that I got very little instruction past (dis)assembly and zeroing an M-16... we spent weeks on those topics. But I had some experience shooting rifles before enlisting, and managed to always qualify as an "Expert" so my instruction was more along the lines of "Good job, keep doing what you're doing." The videos of my shooting that McPhee critiqued quickly exposed flaws in my stance, presentation and grip that I didn't realize I had, and my accuracy and speed improved more in those 20hrs (10 pistol and 10 carbine) and subsequent application than in the last 25 years. YEARS. And I'm still improving as the "new" techniques become ingrained/second nature. Clearly, Big Army can't implement such such a personalized program for all soldiers, but that doesn't negate the fact that such training is beneficial.

As far as tactics go, the 82d gave me a good basis in IMT, actions on contact, etc. But I'm very interested in learning body language, pre-attack indicators, Combat Hunter techniques. We did some MOUT training, but the threat of the day dictated that we spent most of the time in PLT (or larger) elements. And from what I can gather, the MOUT training we did do was in its infancy and is likely outdated... just like TQ's are no longer last resort. So while I could train my family to operate as a fire team, bounding overwatch on the way into WalMart, or exiting the car and providing 360 degree security while pumping gas isn't practical. Don't believe me? Try and get your wife/gf to pull stand to...

 

[Arthur Dent]

Pretty much the cost prevents me from getting specific firearm training. The training itself is a few hundred bucks plus the amount of ammo required. Neither of which I'm complaining about because the training is worth it and you can't really get the training without sending rounds downrange. It's just not in the budget at the moment.

 

[rhino]

Pretty much the cost prevents me from getting specific firearm training. The training itself is a few hundred bucks plus the amount of ammo required. Neither of which I'm complaining about because the training is worth it and you can't really get the training without sending rounds downrange. It's just not in the budget at the moment.

There are a number of local trainers who offer 4 and 8 hour classes for $50-$100.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Pretty much the cost prevents me from getting specific firearm training. The training itself is a few hundred bucks plus the amount of ammo required. Neither of which I'm complaining about because the training is worth it and you can't really get the training without sending rounds downrange. It's just not in the budget at the moment.

The class we put on today was $75 per person, and I guarantee you round count was under 100. You could most likely do the entire class with a box of 50.

Personally, I am immediately turned off by high round counts in short classes. Fatigue sets in, flinch becomes exaggerated, etc. At some point, at least for me, it becomes just throwing bullets down range because that's what we're doing. I learned more from 4 shots with John McPhee than I learned in several thousand previous rounds. If you want to become elite and hit the highest levels of shooting sports or demonstration shooting, yes, you need that high round count. If you want good enough to survive shooting, you can get there a lot quicker and a lot easier. PD academies do that all the time. What's the "street" difference between hitting a 5" circle at 5 yards and hitting a 1" circle at 5 yards? Nothing, most of the time.

 

[Lil Bob]

I had to read every post in this topic. It was too interesting not to. I saved some links that were posted to some training that is out there. I have concluded that there is two forms of training that I am looking to take. One is a pistol training class. This class will cover stance, hold, holster use, etc. This is where I can learn to manipulate my weapon safely, and feel comfortable with it. The other training is the type of training that BehindBlueI's is referring to above. Anyone can say that they are comfortable with thier weapon but I think a good pistol handling course is as much of a must as recognizing threats, threat analysis, etc. My two cents.