Legality: Indiana Deer Hunting w/300BLK AR15 Pistol w/ Sig SB15 Arm Brace

[N_K_1984]

Question answered, skip to page 5. Screenshot of Email response from IN DNR also included.

I have an email in to DNR right now, but I'm still awaiting an answer. I will post whatever official communication they send me.

By all IN DNR definition, my AR pistol is deer legal as it meets barrel length and caliber requirements. It is not fitted with a permanently attached stock, nor can one be readily installed as a smooth, pistol receiver extension is installed and even staked in place. It fits BATFE's definition of a pistol.

Now, I have a Sig SB15 Arm Brace on the way. BATFE has declared that it is approved for use on a pistol, and even if it's used beyond it's designed purpose (aka shouldering) it DOES not change the definition of the pistol to a (NFA controlled) SBR. So if the Sig SB15 is good enough for the BATFE, is it good enough for the IN DNR???

I have no issue leaving the SB15 at home if it avoids a legal fight or an argument in the woods, but if it's been cleared and has the blessing of Indiana DNR, I'm going to go for it. I just want to print the letter of approval and throw it in my pack with my license.

Any thoughts, ideas, stray rounds, misfires?

 

[Vamptepes]

Dnr can't really say much. By federal definition it is a pistol. Federal trumps state. The law is stupid anyways but yes it is legally a pistol and as long as you shoot a round legal for pistol you are fine.

 

[DownByTheTracks]

Dnr can't really say much. By federal definition it is a pistol. Federal trumps state. The law is stupid anyways but yes it is legally a pistol and as long as you shoot a round legal for pistol you are fine.

That's not accurate. If Indiana has a more restrictive law then IN law will trump feds. That's why we can't have short barrel shotguns here...

 

[N_K_1984]

Anyone? Surely someone else out there has considered hunting with a 300BLK AR pistol... (I'm still waiting on documentation / confirmation from DNR.)

 

[Hookeye]

I fail to see the issue.
If it stays a legal pistol and isn't an SBR..............and fits the cartridge spec.

On a kinda sorta similar note: SBR in handgun form possibly changing to allow use as handgun and not slave to rifle cartridge spec (was in some DNR proposal writing, dunno if passed yet or not).

Now, when doing stuff out of the ordinary, don't expect Mr. Possumcop (or other Nimrods) to know the regs as well as you, so be prepared for a bit of a hassle.

Lotsa 'tards in them there sticks.

 

[N_K_1984]

I fail to see the issue.
If it stays a legal pistol and isn't an SBR..............and fits the cartridge spec.

On a kinda sorta similar note: SBR in handgun form possibly changing to allow use as handgun and not slave to rifle cartridge spec (was in some DNR proposal writing, dunno if passed yet or not).

Now, when doing stuff out of the ordinary, don't expect Mr. Possumcop (or other Nimrods) to know the regs as well as you, so be prepared for a bit of a hassle.

Lotsa 'tards in them there sticks.

That's exactly what I figured. An AR pistol is still a pistol when using an SB15 brace, per BATFE. NOW, as long as IN DNR agrees with the BATFE there's no issue. That's what I'm trying to get in writing so I can print that puppy and put it in my pack, along with the BATFE letter about the Sig SB15.

The key is finding that official DNR documentation for Mr. Possumcop.

 

[mooneydc]

That's exactly what I figured. An AR pistol is still a pistol when using an SB15 brace, per BATFE. NOW, as long as IN DNR agrees with the BATFE there's no issue. That's what I'm trying to get in writing so I can print that puppy and put it in my pack, along with the BATFE letter about the Sig SB15.

The key is finding that official DNR documentation for Mr. Possumcop.

Once there is documentation from the dnr approving with the BATFE there should be an explosion in sales for the sig arm brace and 300 blk out pistol barrels. I'm already on board in getting my a set up now before the crunch happens.

 

[Hookeye]

Possible insight.......

BATF allows SBR's to exist in rifle or handgun form. State does too.

But for deer hunting the DNR specialist told me that an SBR in handgun form would still have to be in a rifle cartridge, since a rifle is always a rifle.

Supposedly they are now thinking more like BATF..............if SBR is in handgun form it might be governed in deer hunting use by handgun cartridge spec.
Dunno if or when that passed, but the language for such was rather recent.

With X bows and draw locks on reg bows..............things have gotten a lot more open. I'd think arm brace and pistols to be in that vein.

Explosion of 300 BLK sales and arm braces...................yeah, in those counties with a bonus number of 10 or higher

 

[Hookeye]

They may not have a ruling on the AR pistol arm brace specifically..............but is there any ruling against arm braces for any handgun when hunting, or when deer hunting? I've never seen one.................not that I've checked all regs, but I've been through quite a few in the past and never saw it.

The dual vert grip stuff of way back was yanked by BATF.

 

[avboiler11]

Don't overthink it.

Sig brace is NOT a stock and does NOT make an AR pistol into a rifle.

Throw the BATFE letter into your pack and if a CO gets huffy about the brace, show them the letter...but be prepared to have to defend yourself (possibly legally) against the CO's ignorance of the topic all the same.

 

[Hookeye]

Anti-intellectualism.........

(language warning)

Bill Hicks- What your reading for? - YouTube

 

[N_K_1984]

I'm bumping this thread. I want to keep it alive in hopes that someone will have a letter or email from IN DNR in regards to the thread topic; supporting, official documentation from IN DNR in regards to the Sig SB15 when used in conjunction with a 300BLK AR15 pistol.

 

[trophy hunter]

its my understanding that its legal I have already build my .300 bo pistol and installed a sig brace.. hope to use it this fall..

 

[gmcman355]

Would this mean that a draco in 7.62X39 would also fall in as being ok?

 

[SSGSAD]

I'm bumping this thread. I want to keep it alive in hopes that someone will have a letter or email from IN DNR in regards to the thread topic; supporting, official documentation from IN DNR in regards to the Sig SB15 when used in conjunction with a 300BLK AR15 pistol.

PM, Kirk, or Hough Made, both attorneys, and can probably find out for you .....

 

[AmericanBob]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to?

 

[avboiler11]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to?

Great question - pushing the issue seems like a great way to get a specific judgment against something that, as it stands now, is 100% completely and totally legal.

 

[Shootin'IN]

I think you missed the part of the rule book that says, "The handgun must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than 18 inches or be designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder."
That is what the brace does it redesigns the pistol to be fired from the shoulder.

But if they do allow it I'll be in the market for a .300 Blk upper or a 7.62x39 upper. I just hope the new upper will be as accurate as my old .223 upper.

 

[avboiler11]

I think you missed the part of the rule book that says, "The handgun must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than 18 inches or be designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder."
That is what the brace does it redesigns the pistol to be fired from the shoulder.

No, it does not...despite how people utilize it.

If the Sig PSB "redesigned the pistol to be fired from the shoulder", the PSB would be a stock, and using one would make a pistol a SBR. The ATF has ruled the PSB is not a stock, therefore using one does not make a pistol a SBR, even if fired from the shoulder.

I do understand the question with regards to Indiana law and the desire to be 100% compliant...but think about it from a "court of law" perspective: how will the State prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Sig PSB "redesigns a pistol to be fired from the shoulder" when the BATFE has explicitly issued two Compliance Letters on the topic?

http://sigsauer.com/upFiles/ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf
Arm Braces & Pistols Legal, Even When Fired From Shoudler - The Firearm Blog


DISCLAIMER: not a lawyer

 

[cook4army]

Maybe I have been mislead, but I was under the impression that the hunting laws here stated that you couldnt use rifle rounds, only shotgun (slugs, shot) and pistol calibers. Having a .300 BLK, even in pistol form, would still be using a rifle round to hunt with, and from what I gathered here in IN, thats a no-no.

Can someone clarify?