Zionsville Attempting to Restrict Rural Shooting

[Sfrandolph]

This action is typical of Zionsville. The snooty goody two shoes that inhabit all the wealthy housing additions in Zville are behind this. This is not new. Years ago those that moved in next to farms that had been in existence for decades tried to run those farms out and had some success in doing so. The uppity Zville'ers complained about the "smell" from the farms. Duh. You don't get livestock and some crops without some associated smells. But that did not deter the know it alls.

The folks that inhabit Zville are just like those that inhabit Carmel and Fishers. They want their way no matter what. To hell with everyone else. Personally, I have lived in this county for over 25 years and do my utmost to stay as far away from Zville as possible. So if they want to impose their vision of utopia in their little corner, I don't really care. What I take exception to is when they try to impose their twisted views on the entire county and they have done that very thing in the past.

Zville is evidence of the disease that the US is facing on a daily basis. Liberals with no tolerance for others with conflicting views. May the Lord save the world from liberals.

 

[amboy49]

Zionsville

My point has escaped you as well.

HornadyLnL and others:

Quite frankly I'm dissapointed that you have chosen to use this thread to spout your views on political commentary in general rather than addressing the specific issue at hand. I submit your comments would be better placed on a policital discussion thread. Those of us who either live in the Boone County affected areas, or are concerned about the domino effect for their own area of land use, are trying to gain support for opposition to this ordinance. You, on the other hand, have chosen to use this thread as your personal soap box to rail against generic societal ills.

As I said before, until you have a dog in this fight, please let us keep our focus on the problem at hand.

 

[amboy49]

This action is typical of Zionsville. The snooty goody two shoes that inhabit all the wealthy housing additions in Zville are behind this. This is not new. Years ago those that moved in next to farms that had been in existence for decades tried to run those farms out and had some success in doing so. The uppity Zville'ers complained about the "smell" from the farms. Duh. You don't get livestock and some crops without some associated smells. But that did not deter the know it alls.

The folks that inhabit Zville are just like those that inhabit Carmel and Fishers. They want their way no matter what. To hell with everyone else. Personally, I have lived in this county for over 25 years and do my utmost to stay as far away from Zville as possible. So if they want to impose their vision of utopia in their little corner, I don't really care. What I take exception to is when they try to impose their twisted views on the entire county and they have done that very thing in the past.

Zville is evidence of the disease that the US is facing on a daily basis. Liberals with no tolerance for others with conflicting views. May the Lord save the world from liberals.

Your description may not be the case re: this issue, although it is reasonably accurate on the whole. When I spoke with Mrs. Ulmer she informed me someone had moved to Union Twn.,built a home, and then a shooting range. His longer standing resident neighbors began to complain about, as she put it, " constant shooting for extended periods regardless of time or day." One neighbor, a farmer, complained he was concerned for the safety of his cows, and other stated they were afraid of being shot. She also mentioned the rapid firing of AK-47's and other fully automatic "assault rifles.". ( my quotation marks)

Not to say that often you are correct. I've lived in Zionsville since 1975. The mentality I have observed is "Now that I've moved here, let's close and lock the gate so no one else can move here." The prior Town Council members continuously fought the residential and commercial development and that is the reason we have not seen the over development (in my opinion ) that has occurred in neighboring Hamilton County as well as the other donut counties around Indianapolis. The Zionsville area is now feeling the developer pressure more than ever - and will continue to be difficult issue to deal with. It is odd that the Town Council and Plan Commission are spending time and dollars to stop Walmart from building a new store on Michigan Road in the farthest southeastern corner of the town jurisdiction, but actually encouraged and promoted: the Fed Ex complex under construction, the proposed Pittman Farms retail development, and the development of the 106th Street corridor consisting of several acres for commercial and retail use.

The Town now seems receptive, perhaps desparate, to attract commercial development all the while espousing the theory of retaining the "quaint colonial atmoshpere" that brings pedestrian traffic to the shops and eateries. I believe they are doing this to acquire the additional tax revenue to fund the various infrastructure projects required by the burgeoning town population. Projects like building a park, complete with a little used sledding hill and a foot bridge to cross Eagle creek that cost several hundreds of thousands to millions of dollares,are but a few examples.



All concerned, PLEASE attend the August 5th meeting to provide a show of support in opposition to this ordinance.

 

[hornadylnl]

HornadyLnL and others:

Quite frankly I'm dissapointed that you have chosen to use this thread to spout your views on political commentary in general rather than addressing the specific issue at hand. I submit your comments would be better placed on a policital discussion thread. Those of us who either live in the Boone County affected areas, or are concerned about the domino effect for their own area of land use, are trying to gain support for opposition to this ordinance. You, on the other hand, have chosen to use this thread as your personal soap box to rail against generic societal ills.

As I said before, until you have a dog in this fight, please let us keep our focus on the problem at hand.

You're only concerned about this symptom. I'm concerned about the disease.

I want to eliminate the government's ability to regulate personal ranges. You can continue to treat the symptom or you can cure the disease.

 

[amboy49]

Horndaylnl:

Please let us in Boone County work to treat our local "symptom" on this thread - and you can use the political forum(s) to gain support for the general issue. We're trying to win a local battle and you're comments only serve to divert attention from the specific issue we are dealing with. At the next election in a few years we will recall what is done in the next several days and either keep in or vote out the incumbents. However, if we aren't successful in suppressing this ordinance we will only slip further away from local control of our land use and personal rights.

 

[hornadylnl]

Horndaylnl:

Please let us in Boone County work to treat our local "symptom" on this thread - and you can use the political forum(s) to gain support for the general issue. We're trying to win a local battle and you're comments only serve to divert attention from the specific issue we are dealing with. At the next election in a few years we will recall what is done in the next several days and either keep in or vote out the incumbents. However, if we aren't successful in suppressing this ordinance we will only slip further away from local control of our land use and personal rights.

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[phatgemi]

As in many cases, the end result will be the old adage: "Follow the money"!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sfrandolph]

As in many cases, the end result will be the old adage: "Follow the money"!!!!!!!!!

Good point.

 

[Sfrandolph]

Your description may not be the case re: this issue, although it is reasonably accurate on the whole. When I spoke with Mrs. Ulmer she informed me someone had moved to Union Twn.,built a home, and then a shooting range. His longer standing resident neighbors began to complain about, as she put it, " constant shooting for extended periods regardless of time or day." One neighbor, a farmer, complained he was concerned for the safety of his cows, and other stated they were afraid of being shot. She also mentioned the rapid firing of AK-47's and other fully automatic "assault rifles.". ( my quotation marks)

Not to say that often you are correct. I've lived in Zionsville since 1975. The mentality I have observed is "Now that I've moved here, let's close and lock the gate so no one else can move here." The prior Town Council members continuously fought the residential and commercial development and that is the reason we have not seen the over development (in my opinion ) that has occurred in neighboring Hamilton County as well as the other donut counties around Indianapolis. The Zionsville area is now feeling the developer pressure more than ever - and will continue to be difficult issue to deal with. It is odd that the Town Council and Plan Commission are spending time and dollars to stop Walmart from building a new store on Michigan Road in the farthest southeastern corner of the town jurisdiction, but actually encouraged and promoted: the Fed Ex complex under construction, the proposed Pittman Farms retail development, and the development of the 106th Street corridor consisting of several acres for commercial and retail use.

The Town now seems receptive, perhaps desparate, to attract commercial development all the while espousing the theory of retaining the "quaint colonial atmoshpere" that brings pedestrian traffic to the shops and eateries. I believe they are doing this to acquire the additional tax revenue to fund the various infrastructure projects required by the burgeoning town population. Projects like building a park, complete with a little used sledding hill and a foot bridge to cross Eagle creek that cost several hundreds of thousands to millions of dollares,are but a few examples.



All concerned, PLEASE attend the August 5th meeting to provide a show of support in opposition to this ordinance.

Zville lost the quaint colonial atmosphere years ago. Why? Because of the wealthy know it alls that were accepted with open arms. Zville has signed its own death warrant by allowing the expansion and high cost housing developments. Was that an improvement of life? I doubt it. Was it a tremendous increase in the tax base. YES! And there is the answer as to why Zville is out of control and beginning their crusade to impose their views on the rest of the county. Boone county would be better off without Zville. I would vote in favor of allowing Marion or Hamilton to annex Zville.

 

[octalman]

My point has escaped you as well.

Really don't care, since amboy49 pointed out so well there is a concrete issue at hand for the residents of the Zionsville area, not hypothetical hyperbole. I will step aside and let those with a dog in the fight have a productive discussion.

 

[Mark 1911]

I am not from the Zionsville area, but I am watching this one. I hope enough concerned people turn out on August 5th to stop this from becoming law.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

For posters who mentioned that they voted for the present town council members, they should check the campaign finance reports to see where the allegiances of the councilmembers lie. Except for Mundy, the remaining six councilmen received roughly 25% of their total contributions from Civic Pride of Boone County, a political action committee. The officers for that group are Matt Price, Bob Harris, Paul Kite, and the Longest brothers. Respectively lobbyist, real estate developers, and the engineering firm presently contracted with the town of Zionsville. Big contributors like these are the real constituents of the town council.

Why is this important? A prominent local developer stated that the rural area around Zionsville was the largest area of undeveloped land in the Indy metro area. For you rural residents in the Zionsville area, do you think that the soccer moms who want to move to Zionsville for its overpriced schools are going to want to hear you popping caps in your backyard? Do you think that some developer who is building a show home for these soccer moms will want to have people visiting that show home and hearing gunfire in the background?

Local residents have the opportunity to stop this ordinance, if they show up in sufficient numbers. But, over the longer term, to the extent that you interfere with the plans that others with a much different vision of southeastern Boone County have, they will continue to try to marginalize you, until you vote them OUT OF OFFICE!

FWIW,

J Galt

BINGO! That is the real underlying reason behind this proposed ordinance. It's not about the safe discharge of firearms in the rural district of Zionsville as Sheriff Campbell can readily take care of any complaints of people discharging guns in an unsafe manner! It's a noise ordinance disguised as a safe firearm ordinance. Can't call it for what it is because what would you do about all the other noise one may encounter in the rural area such as farm equipment and animals?

Also, as part of the re-organized Town of Zionsville, that has two distinct districts, rural and urban, who is going to enforce the ordinance even if it should pass? The urban area is served by the Town of Zionsville and the rural district is supposed to be served by the County Sheriff's department. I don't think Sheriff Campbell is authorized to enforce the Town's ordinances and he wouldn't this one even if he could. The Town's police force are to serve only the urban district. So, who's going to write the citations?

As Galt implies, this is all about some soccer moms who moved into the rural area, on their "estate" lots who want to force their desires on people without caring what their neighbor's rights are.

 

[Enkrypter]

"(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to fire or discharge a firearm within 150 yards in proximity to or within the range of any person or assemblage of people, adjacent private property, vehicle, farm, dwelling, house, apartment, church, school, airport, or other building, park, trail, pathway or recreational area, or to fire in such direction such that any projectile expelled could or does strike, hit, enter or pass through any of the foregoing. "

According to indiana hunting laws, this is flat out illegal. Farmers and land owners have state law that allows them to hunt and shoot on farm ground. Local policy makers may want to read up on the law before they start making stuff up.

IC 14-22-11-1
IC 14-22-11-1
"Farmland" defined; license requirements and conditions
Sec. 1. (a) As used in this section, "farmland" means agricultural land that is:
(1) devoted or best adaptable for the production of crops, fruits, timber, and the raising of livestock; or
(2) assessed as agricultural land for property tax purposes.
(b) An individual may not take or chase, with or without dogs, a wild animal without having a license, except as follows:
(1) An individual who is a resident or nonresident of Indiana while participating in a field trial that has been sanctioned by the director is not required to possess a license while participating in the trial.
(2) Subject to subsection (d), an owner of farmland located in Indiana who is a resident or nonresident of Indiana and the spouse and children living with the owner may hunt, fish, and trap without a license on the land that the owner owns.
(3) A lessee of farmland who farms that land and is a resident of Indiana and the spouse and children living with the lessee may hunt, fish, and trap without a license on the leased land. This subdivision does not apply to land that is:
(A) owned, leased, or controlled by; and
(B) leased from;
the department.
(4) An individual who:
(A) is less than thirteen (13) years of age;
(B) does not possess a bow or firearm; and
(C) is accompanying an individual who:
(i) is at least eighteen (18) years of age; and
(ii) holds a valid license;
may chase a wild animal without having a license.
(c) The exceptions provided in this section do not apply to a commercial license issued under this article.
(d) The right of a nonresident who owns farmland in Indiana (and of the spouse and children who reside with the nonresident) to hunt, fish, and trap on the farmland without a license under subsection (b)(2) is subject to the following conditions:
(1) The nonresident may hunt, fish, and trap on the farmland without a license only if the state in which the nonresident resides allows residents of Indiana who own land in that state to hunt, fish, and trap on their land without a license.
(2) While hunting, fishing, or trapping on the farmland, the nonresident must keep proof that the nonresident owns the farmland (for example, a tax receipt identifying the nonresident as owner) in a place where the proof is readily accessible by the nonresident.
As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.15. Amended by P.L.139-1997, SEC.1;

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

for interest... seems like it would be a regulation of firearms, which is reserved to the State, but then again they are talking only about the DISCHARGING of a firearm...

 

[dnurk]

I received the following message from Jeff Papa in response to a few emails I sent the town council on this subject. It appears they are delaying hearing this until they have had time to further investigate. He originally crafted this message for Guy and Sheriff Campbell and he was kind enough to send to me to keep me in the loop.

Guy and Sheriff Campbell, we are lucky to have you in our community (my personal comments...not included in the email from Mr Papa)



Forwarded email below...

"I wanted to make sure you have the most recent information on this, including meeting dates - the two versions of a draft ordinance were placed in the council packet as a way to start a conversation about responding to the repeated constituent complaints from several longtime residents of the rural district. As I mentioned before, the council had not had a full discussion on this topic or decided on any particular action, but felt a responsibility to look into the ongoing inquiries and complaints. Our agenda meeting is the venue at which we meet to discuss what should or should not be on the council agenda for the next meeting. At the agenda meeting this morning, it was decided that the best forum to hear this issue is the Zionsville Safety Board, and that the Safety Board make any recommendations to the full council for addressing the ongoing complaints - the recommendation will depend on what the safety board learns - it does not necessarily have to recommend an ordinance. I do want to stress that no course of action has been decided on, but we do need to look into the complaints and related facts. As we agreed, both oridnance drafts raised many questions and would have required many changes if moved forward.

The next meeting of the Safety Board will be on August 26 at 9 a.m. at Zionsville Town Hall, and of course, the public is welcome. We have removed the topic from the agenda for the full council meeting on August 5 so there will not be any action taken or extensive discussion at that meeting, but of course we do have the public speaking request segment of our agenda every action meeting. If the Safety Board makes recommendations, those would then be made to the full council, where further public input would be taken. Thanks again for your input."

 

[DennisTheMenace]

At the agenda meeting this morning, it was decided that the best forum to hear this issue is the Zionsville Safety Board, and that the Safety Board make any recommendations to the full council for addressing the ongoing complaints - the recommendation will depend on what the safety board learns - it does not necessarily have to recommend an ordinance. I do want to stress that no course of action has been decided on, but we do need to look into the complaints and related facts. As we agreed, both oridnance drafts raised many questions and would have required many changes if moved forward.

The next meeting of the Safety Board will be on August 26 at 9 a.m. at Zionsville Town Hall, and of course, the public is welcome. We have removed the topic from the agenda for the full council meeting on August 5 so there will not be any action taken or extensive discussion at that meeting, but of course we do have the public speaking request segment of our agenda every action meeting. If the Safety Board makes recommendations, those would then be made to the full council, where further public input would be taken. Thanks again for your input."

It doesn't need to move forward, IMHO. This ordinance concerns the safe discharging of firearms in the rural district. There are already enough laws in place that the Sheriff of Boone County can enforce against those who would criminally discharge guns in an unsafe manner.

For your info the Safety Board consists of the following Council Members.

Jeff Papa
Steve Mundy
Susana Suarez

None of these Councilors live in the rural area. Unfortunately, the only Councilor that does live in the rural district is one of the Councilors behind this POS ordinance. Keep those emails coming.

One thing is for certain, I am only a few years away from retiring and if this ordinance passes, my house will be going up for sale!

 

[dnurk]

It doesn't need to move forward, IMHO. This ordinance concerns the safe discharging of firearms in the rural district. There are already enough laws in place that the Sheriff of Boone County can enforce against those who would criminally discharge guns in an unsafe manner.

That was a big part of my position that I sent to them. We have plenty of laws in place to regulate unsafe or negligent shooting practices. This type of overreaching ordinance is bad legislation from the start.

But as others have mentioned, the people complaining are using safety as a red herring. It's more about the fact that they do not like the noise or thought of others using firearms near them.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

That was a big part of my position that I sent to them. We have plenty of laws in place to regulate unsafe or negligent shooting practices. This type of overreaching ordinance is bad legislation from the start.

But as others have mentioned, the people complaining are using safety as a red herring. It's more about the fact that they do not like the noise or thought of others using firearms near them.

That's funny. I live near the private range that started this bru ha ha, that is located on 300S I believe, and when I hear gun fire from that direction it makes me feel ....safe

And jealous that I don't have such a set up on my meager two acres.

 

[Blown71X]

The next meeting of the Safety Board will be on August 26 at 9 a.m. at Zionsville Town Hall

WOW...Really ?
Sure wouldn`t want to make it convenient for those of us with Real jobs to be there, now would we ?

 

[amboy49]

I was about to comment - isn't it amazing the Safety Board meeting is at 9 am on a weekday and council meetings are in the evening ? Since I pretty much set my own work schedule I am planning to attend. Perhaps those either those retired or the same flexibility will also place this on their calendar. Perhaps a continued email and phone campaign in opposition will result in a positive effect "our" favor. This does give us all more time to contact friends and family to garner all the support we can muster.