Police Mag Dump

[gregr]

Serious question, how many were the correct amount of rounds to use in this specific situation?

How ever many it takes...

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Louisville seems to have slid into the yuk column, if you will. The dead perp - for some reason I'm finding it hard impossible to shed a tear... Their police force also has or had some issues too. Their was the LEO that chose to fire blindly into an apt. building while serving a warrant for a man that didn't live there. Then there were two? maybe three? LEO's popped for child rape/seduction/whatever. It revolved around some type of kids camp... can't remember the specifics. I've never been a sworn officer responsible for taking calls/runs. I can only imagine it would be a thankless job. But if that's your job, asking for your best shouldn't be asking too much.

“If a man is called to be a street sweeper. He should sweep streets even as a Michelangelo painted , or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all hosts of heaven and earth pause to say;​

​

Here lives a great sweeper who did his job well ".”​

― Martin Luther King Jr.

Where's the "here we go" Joker meme when you need it? In typical INGO fashion, a discussion about one incident involving the police devolves into the ACAB ******** that is so productive to discussions and really makes the INGO JBTs want to get involved. Are you Rooster's shill account? And what job do you do that your performance is as high as Michelangelo, Beethoven, or Shakespeare?

 

[ECS686]

Serious question, how many were the correct amount of rounds to use in this specific situation?

Justified shootings start to not look justified (or excessive) when the body gets riddled. While the term riddled might mean different things to different folks There is no good way to explain away 25, 30 or 60 hits. That’s way outside that OODA Loop where you can explain away 1-3 shots or a late punch within a second.

In m time with DOJ I have seen a lot of former LEOs doing time for Federal Civil Rights violations in an otherwise legit use of force…until it wasn’t!

 

[rosejm]

I have no issues with continuing to make hits until the threat has stopped, as seen in Greenwood.
The questionable behavior is firing as fast as possible and missing with every round as we see in Louisville.

If I'm unable to see the hits (very likely) and the target doesn't change behavior, I'm going to assume I'm missing and more focus on marksmanship is required.

Only truly excellent marksmen can shoot and make hits as quickly as we see here, and even then the targets are typically <25y. In Loiusville, we see an attempt to generate effective fire by volume, and that's not acceptable in a populated area.

 

[BE Mike]

The assumption that they would be unaimed is incorrect. If you watch the video, it is no assumption that the officer is spraying and praying at that distance.

 

[gregr]

Justified shootings start to not look justified (or excessive) when the body gets riddled. While the term riddled might mean different things to different folks There is no good way to explain away 25, 30 or 60 hits. That’s way outside that OODA Loop where you can explain away 1-3 shots or a late punch within a second.

In m time with DOJ I have seen a lot of former LEOs doing time for Federal Civil Rights violations in an otherwise legit use of force…until it wasn’t!

I have a hard time thinking that a justified shooting is any less justified because of the number of hits. Not in my mind anyway. If lethal force was justified, dead is dead, and 2 hits or 60, makes no difference.

 

[BE Mike]

Serious question, how many were the correct amount of rounds to use in this specific situation?

I am not as concerned with the number of rounds fired as to the obvious poor attempt to employ a handgun so amateurishly by someone who is trained. To me mag dump and spray and pray are the same terms.

 

[BE Mike]

Are you saying you could tell where your hits were on a moving, twisting target?

What I'm saying is that when one shoots that rapidly with unaimed shots, there is no chance that one could even determine if one had neutralized the threat.

 

[DadSmith]

How many shots where fired and how many were hits on Lee?

 

[Destro]

I am not as concerned with the number of rounds fired as to the obvious poor attempt to employ a handgun so amateurishly by someone who is trained. To me mag dump and spray and pray are the same terms.

I would like to propose a contest:
Lets take INGO' 5 best amateur shooters, and 5 random police officers.

Lets have both run 100 yards THEN engage a moving target, under fire, and compare hit %.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I would like to propose a contest:
Lets take INGO' 5 best amateur shooters, and 5 random police officers.

Lets have both run 100 yards THEN engage a moving target, under fire, and compare hit %.

Let's have 5 random INGO shooters run 100 yards.

 

[DadSmith]

I would like to propose a contest:
Lets take INGO' 5 best amateur shooters, and 5 random police officers.

Lets have both run 100 yards THEN engage a moving target, under fire, and compare hit %.

Can I use a Tactical Hoverround?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Let's have 5 random INGO shooters run 100 yards.

To be fair, I'm not too keen on the running part.

 

[ECS686]

I have a hard time thinking that a justified shooting is any less justified because of the number of hits. Not in my mind anyway. If lethal force was justified, dead is dead, and 2 hits or 60, makes no difference.

There are SEVERAL cases of both LEO’ and Civilians alike getting himmed up (charges and some getting convicted) not by the first 4 shots but the last 2 shots.

One recent event still working it’s way through was the LAPD Officer that shot the guy 6 times (the thugs attorney brought up her USPSA master class rating and FB videos) when you watch that shouldn’t be a big issue as in it wasn’t a mag dump and she stopped ina. Reasonable time

Merit Commissions, Prosecutors and and Juries don’t look at it like most of us do!

 

[Destro]

Can I use a Tactical Hoverround?

Sure, just remember you don't get to choose the time, location/terrain, or weather for this event.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

... you don't get to choose the time, location/terrain, or weather for this event.

Well that's not very fair.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

To be fair, I'm not too keen on the running part.

If I can wear pants you can run. I bet you'd run if I wasn't wearing pants, come to think of it. Toward or away is the real question. What were we talking about again? Rabbits? Fugitives? Fugitive rabbits?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If I can wear pants you can run. I bet you'd run if I wasn't wearing pants, come to think of it. Toward or away is the real question. What were we talking about again? Rabbits? Fugitives? Fugitive rabbits?

Your pants . . . yet again. *sigh* It's always about the cop's pants and never mine.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

If I can wear pants you can run. I bet you'd run if I wasn't wearing pants, come to think of it. Toward or away is the real question. What were we talking about again? Rabbits? Fugitives? Fugitive rabbits?

Toward, definitely toward. Another reason I might run is if food is at the finish line.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Your pants . . . yet again. *sigh* It's always about the cop's pants and never mine.

We can make it about your pants. Speaking of you, BBI had training together the other night and they talked about Pinner. We discussed how that is your favorite caselaw to quote on INGO. That and Texas.