A pistol for the present-day gunfighter: Why I carry a Glock

[kawtech87]

SUAREZ INTERNATIONAL BLOG - A Pistol For the Present Day Gunfighter (Why I carry a Glock)

This reads more like a Glock ad than an article.

That being said I am carrying a Glock.

 

[kawtech87]

Wow 11 pages!?

What happened a newbie have a melt down?

 

[sliptap]

Posted on page 1 last night...11 pages now. Thanks for the laughs everyone

 

[cedartop]

They actually sound like people I would get along with in person. Maybe my personality doesn't translate well through my online persona. When I type I tend to type the way I think, not how I actually talk. Kinda like that guy who posts as Harleyrider_50 only not in gibberish.

I hold no sacred cows, and read no fairy tales. If I am wrong I appreciate being told and corrected by my teacher or instructor in a firm but professional manner. But if it is an instructor or teacher telling me I am wrong while insulting me, especially online, before I have even considered his place of business as a potential place to train. Do you really think I am going to go to a class taught by JdHaines now? No. Cedartop though he was not insulting did nothing to chastise who I would assume to be his subordinate, purely based on the info in their sig lines. So, Based on Jdhaines' conduct alone. I guess I can count Paladin Combatives out of future training places nor can I recommend them to anyone.

Well I promised an answer so lets give it a try. It may not look that much different from Josh's so I may have to end up chastising myself.

In our Managing Confrontations class we start with talking about criminals and how they look and act. Now this may seem obvious, but if it was there wouldn't be so many victims out there. In my short time as a police officer and in speaking with many officers since then there is a common statement victims give. It is some variation of, "they came out of nowhere". Now we know the bad guy didn't really come out of nowhere, but it seems that way to people because most aren't paying attention. So we teach them what to look for. I won't get into all of that here, but the point is part of what you said is valid, you don't want to be there when the trouble happens. If that isn't the end then it may just be the beginning. You can't possibly believe that just being aware is going to be the answer for every situation any more than a gun is the answer to every problem.

Sometimes despite your best efforts you get caught unaware or behind the curve, or maybe you are being specifically targeted for who you are or what you have. We look at ways to deal with these situations starting all the way from verbal and moving up the line through movement and simple striking, clinch, and ground work. We also look at how accessing a weapon can be a little more difficult than people imagine. Here is the rub though, all of this is for situations where you are unsure of what is happening. You try to avoid, if you can't you move up the ladder doing what you need to to escape, or win. This type of encounter is probably more likely to happen than a gunfight for most people, so it is very important information and can work for non gun carriers as well.

There may come a point where the previous encounter escalates to something involving weapons. Or as happens a lot all of that may be shortcut and you are suddenly facing an armed adversary. This is where the weapon specific classes come up. For us mostly handguns, or rifles. If you have made it to this point or it is thrust upon you, it would be best to end the fight in the most efficient manner. Turning to run is not really a viable option anymore. Getting shot or clubbed or stabbed in the back will hurt just as much as from the front. How you win this part of the fight may take on different tactics depending on the situation. The real life encounters from Rangemaster's students would indicate that the most important attributes at this point is a good accurate, fast first shot or shots. Don't count on this encounter being in your face like is so often talked about on the errornet. It can take on many forms. Movement of some sort on the good guys part is probably a good idea but again it is situationally dependent. There is way too much to go into here, but that might give you an idea.

It isn't going to effect us much whether you come to one of our classes or not. Right now we don't have a Managing Confrontations class scheduled, but are looking to get one up for the fall in Indiana. I would love to have you come to the class as my guest. You won't learn any pressure points, but if you have an open mind I am willing to bet you might learn more than you think.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

In all seriousness, when I took an intermediate pistol class a few months back most of the folks were running 1911s or some other .45. With my Glock 19, I was the only one who wasn't reloading between every single drill.

Your point is?

 

[iChokePeople]

+1 for Mike, Josh, and their managing confrontations class.

 

[bradmedic04]

Your point is?

I think his point was that he was reloading less.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

While I understand what you're saying, what about the shots you may miss? If you miss twice, you're down to 6 more shots. Is that still enough?

My last two citizens shooting at robbers both used 5 shot revolvers (one LCR, one J-frame) both missed all shots as best we can tell, both prevailed as the armed bad guy fled when the shooting started. Both fired 3 times before the bad guy was too far away for them to have a shot at. This is incredibly common, both the missing and the number of shots.

Obviously this is not ideal, as a truly dedicated bad guy would have returned fire instead of fleeing (assuming their gun was real and operative, which is often not the case), and frankly in both cases a starter pistol would have done just as well, but it does illustrate a common "gun fight" on the streets.

I have yet to have a victim/attempted victim lose a gun fight due to being out of ammo. I know it probably happens, but it happens a lot less than losing because of being surprised, of failing to have the gun operational (carrying without one in the pipe or failing to deactivate an external safety, for example), or simply being hit before they could effectively return fire. Most people run out of time (the engagement ends one way or the other) before they run out of ammo.

This is why I continually harp that whatever you can shoot accurately the fastest in a caliber capable of breaking through bone is the best carry gun for you. The first shot is the most important. The second shot is the second most important, etc. etc. Very, very, very few gun fights result in more than 3 hits regardless of numbers of shots taken (per gunman.) Note this doesn't apply to shootings, which I define as only one side being armed and the other attempting to flee or surrendering, but to actual gun fights were both sides are armed and attempting to harm the other or firing in an attempt to evade.

I saw an analysis where derringers would be better weapons for psycho shooters than a magazine weapon.

Besides the obviously ridiculousness, did the analysis figure in the lack of usable sights and horrendous triggers that are the hallmark fo derringers? I'm thinking the analysis was done by someone who should probably be analyzing how to get out of his mom's basement for some Vitamin D.

**edit**

This should not be construed as saying there is anything wrong with more capacity. Unless you are trying to swim or are on fire, you can't have too much ammo. Just don't sacrifice speed and accuracy for capacity. Doing so is like going for a motorcycle ride, having to choose between a helmet and a life vest, and choosing the life vest in case you are thrown off a bridge. Do not prepare for the least likely scenario at the expense of the most likely.

 

[bradmedic04]

Just don't sacrifice speed and accuracy for capacity. Doing so is like going for a motorcycle ride, having to choose between a helmet and a life vest, and choosing the life vest in case you are thrown off a bridge. Do not prepare for the least likely scenario at the expense of the most likely.

Excellent simile.

 

[ViperJock]

Shiver, it's not about wanting more bullets because you want the fight to last longer. It's about having enough bullets so that fight doesn't last longer than your magazine does. The thing about the "average fight" is that while most fights may be over quickly there are the few outliers that don't. If you know for certain you won't be in an outlier then by all means, pack light.

 

[rhino]

Shiver, it's not about wanting more bullets because you want the fight to last longer. It's about having enough bullets so that fight doesn't last longer than your magazine does. The thing about the "average fight" is that while most fights may be over quickly there are the few outliers that don't. If you know for certain you won't be in an outlier then by all means, pack light.

That's a good way to put it!

 

[MCgrease08]

Your point is?

See post #68.

 

[Bravo-4-2]

"A Present Day Gunfighter?"

That should have been all anyone needed to skip reading his nonsense.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

What this thread has taught me ;

1. OC dual Draco's with drum mags .

2. OC two Glock's with 30 rnd stick mags

3. Need to perfect Dimond Dave's , ah NINGY and uh numb chukin techniques .


That way iffin's I needs to put a whompin onna sumbody I am prepared with a faster than lightnin , ningy kick , a judy chop and uh numb chucks before they can run oft .

Eye thank whut Shiver iz tryn to say wus , dont go round ah nigyin thangs that dont need ah ningyn .

 

[Gluemanz28]

I feel that part of training is getting better and part of it will raise your confidence level as your skills increase. An overdose of fear and lack of confidence is disaster waiting to happen. I stand with the others that say carry what you feel confident that it will function and hit what you are aiming at. If you feel unsafe with just the rounds in your weapon and need a spare mag in case of a failure or jam carry as many as you feel necessary.

I considered my self to be a good shot. I could out shoot most all of my buddies when shooting paper at the range. (My wife would out shoot me though. Ok I said it, she is a better shot). I started training on a weekly routine with a group at Midwest Range in Elkhart on Monday night and went to some of the Steel Challenge matches at Nappanee on Wednesday night. I realized that when you add in speed, movement and having to think about several things at once that I need a lot of work. I shot six times and didn't hit one plate (I was sure that there had to be blanks and not live rounds in the gun). I was trying to at least compete with the guy with the $4000 race gun. He was shooting the last plate before the first plate completely fell. I was rushing my shots.

My suggestion to Shiver is to pick up the phone and call Josh and talk with him. Too much is lost when typing what you are trying to convey. We all have a lot to learn and it should be a never ending quest to get better and sharpen our skills. I have been surprised by some things that I have learned from people that I never would have expected to learn from.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What this thread has taught me ;

1. OC dual Draco's with drum mags .

2. OC two Glock's with 30 rnd stick mags

3. Need to perfect Dimond Dave's , ah NINGY and uh numb chukin techniques .

 

[churchmouse]

"A Present Day Gunfighter?"

That should have been all anyone needed to skip reading his nonsense.

You are such a positive influence my friend.

 

[Madjack181]

If a person has the forethought to carry enough weaponry for that kind of event, then he's smart enough to avoid that kind of situation to begin with. You don't go looking for trouble because you carry a gun.

 

[output]

Some members have shared some very interesting perspectives...but most just bashed. Did the author imply that everyone should carry two G19's and call it gospel? I have always marveled at how people are so quick to pick someone else apart, that had enough confidence to share their opinion. Lot's of us make choices based upon our own experience(s) and personal beliefs and that is the way it should be...but don't bash a guy for sharing his own ideals.

If you are fine with a 5 shot stubby more power to you. I am a fan of carrying the most gun that I can. My thought process is simple. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have. I bet you will never meet a guy that said I sure wish I didn't have that extra magazine or backup gun at the end of that fight. Sure chances are that 99% of us might not ever need a gun for defensive use in our lifetime. The only question that really matters is, what if you do and what if the one time you need it there are multiple attackers and you are the only armed person around? It might be nice to have a spare if you run dry or even to hand off to someone else.

 

[chezuki]

If a person has the forethought to carry enough weaponry for that kind of event, then he's smart enough to avoid that kind of situation to begin with. You don't go looking for trouble because you carry a gun.