A pistol for the present-day gunfighter: Why I carry a Glock

[chezuki]

Sweet! Glad I could help make your day just a little brighter. Now pass along the sunshine to someone else will you friend. And do it with a smile.

Now if we can put on our big boy pants and have a big boy talk. Do you really teach people to rely on round count? Would getting the **** out not be a better way than standing still and hoping you don't get hit?

Just curious, what type of training background do you have (other than the yellow belt at 10 of course) that qualifies you to be dispensing advice?

 

[bradmedic04]

 

[cedartop]

I admit I do not know you or what your skill level is. I assume you are an instructor by the ad in your sig line so it would be a safe bet your skill level is higher than most. I will freely admit mine is not very high. Though I am working to improve when an where I can.

Being an instructor, do you really teach your students to remain engaged in a gun fight as long as possible? Or do you tell them to get the **** out as quick as they can?

I don't have time to answer your question right now. I want to make it clear I was not talking about myself when I said you don't know who you were talking to. I was referring to iChokePeople.

 

[Shiver]

Just curious, what type of training background do you have (other than the yellow belt at 10 of course) that qualifies you to be dispensing advice?

I already said I claim no expertise. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Other than a few stupid kid fights and my very limited martial arts training I have no combat experience and have not claimed to have any. As far as training goes I am always seeking instructors for force on force training and real life self defense scenario training. If CedarTop and JdHaines are instructors and this is the manner they present themselves to someone who obviously has a much lower skill set than they do who may be a potential client, Perhaps I should look elsewhere than Paladin Combatives for training.

All I was originally trying to say and have been saying is I believe it is better to avoid conflict if possible. Which I obviously failed to do in this thread. And if you can't avoid conflict try to deescalate it, which I am not the greatest at, as evidenced here as well. And if all else fails and it comes to blows, win the fight or escape.

 

[iChokePeople]

I love it. Usually people recommend crazy "can't be trained" magic moves. A secret punch in the arm is legal! Let's call up Greg Jackson or whoever is running Jon Jones' training camp, give them the tip on how to disable the arm of his next opponent, and get some cash!

ICP, you call Mayweather Jr's management team, they'll want this.

Dim mak hapkido arm destruction...who would have thought... Now only to find a way to get them to hold still......

there's also the guy who says he can easily escape all of those silly BJJ chokes and locks, we could send him down. Let's not let him off the hook.

 

[Shiver]

I don't have time to answer your question right now. I want to make it clear I was not talking about myself when I said you don't know who you were talking to. I was referring to iChokePeople.

I don't know very many people on these boards personally.... I'm wondering if I really want to.

 

[iChokePeople]

I already said I claim no expertise. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Other than a few stupid kid fights and my very limited martial arts training I have no combat experience and have not claimed to have any. As far as training goes I am always seeking instructors for force on force training and real life self defense scenario training. If CedarTop and JdHaines are instructors and this is the manner they present themselves to someone who obviously has a much lower skill set than they do who may be a potential client, Perhaps I should look elsewhere than Paladin Combatives for training.

All I was originally trying to say and have been saying is I believe it is better to avoid conflict if possible. Which I obviously failed to do in this thread. And if you can't avoid conflict try to deescalate it, which I am not the greatest at, as evidenced here as well. And if all else fails and it comes to blows, win the fight or escape.

Cedartop and jdhaines teach a course that stresses exactly some of the things you're talking about -- de-escalate, avoid, dealing with close quarters problems... But they have a certain no-bs, political correctness doesn't matter style that I, for one, appreciate. Probably not for everyone, especially those who hold their cows sacred or believe in fairy tales.

 

[chezuki]

I hear he chokes people... now I have to go find that Evan pic again... INGO is such an entertaining merry-go-round.

 

[iChokePeople]

I hear he chokes people... now I have to go find that Evan pic again... INGO is such an entertaining merry-go-round.

That's a vicious lie for which Photoshop was used to smear my passive and kind nature.

 

[357 Terms]

....Bacon.

 

[bradmedic04]

I hear he chokes people... now I have to go find that Evan pic again... INGO is such an entertaining merry-go-round.

You spelled merry-go-round incorrectly. It's C-I-R-C-L-E-J-E-R-K.

 

[chezuki]

That's a vicious lie for which Photoshop was used to smear my passive and kind nature.

It's a decent Photoshop!

 

[jdhaines]

I don't know very many people on these boards personally.... I'm wondering if I really want to.

I'll throw a bone...There are certainly some douchey people on this board. The problem is, you've stated in multiple posts pretty definitive statements regarding some things that you openly claim to have no ideas about. If they were presented as "I've heard this, is it true?" or "This is what I was taught, what does everyone think?" or "Could you back up why you think X?" or "Here's my opinion." or "etc." then you wouldn't be getting the flaming you are now. Myself and Mike specifically, and many of the good guys on this forum (many of which are involved in this thread) will go to great lengths to explain things and be un-douchey. The problem is we've written at length on many of these topics. We've argued points, changed our minds, read other expert opinions, spent countless hours training and testing dearly hold beliefs, etc to get to the point we are today. Some are just starting (sounds like yourself) and some have been doing it a moderate amount of time (myself) and some have done it for a very long time. There is a general "state of the industry" on many of these topics which have grown to the point they are through the work of various people. By not reading and understanding what has come before and arguing from a point of ignorance (which is obvious to those of us who discuss these things on a continual basis) it's often easier to throw out a couple lines flaming the new guy. IF you are that new guy then you get the brunt of people acting mean.

I think most of us are plenty welcome to extinguish the flames if someone steps up and wants to discuss things in an honest manner. A few will still joke because it's what they do (which is fine.) Telling us to look up hapkido arm destructions tells us all many things. One of which is you probably haven't done a lot of training in a real-pressure environment (that's ok, many haven't). The second is that you are likely going to be part of a larger group of people who want to take the easy road out and discuss things like pressure points and groin strikes to avoid getting sweaty, bruised, and ego-smashed by testing some of these things with someone who is allowed to fight back. Being in the former is fine as long as you have the right attitude about it. Being in the latter group is understandable early on but the quicker you come to realize it's the wrong path, the better off you'll be. And pushing us to adopt the same ideas won't get any traction.

I'll drop the flames for now, and I know Mike will give you an honest response later on to your previous question. By the way, I don't understand why that particular point keeps sticking. We would never teach someone to just keep shooting, or to get the hell out of dodge. It's a lot more complicated than that. Either or both could be correct given the state of a huge number of other variables.

 

[Shiver]

Cedartop and jdhaines teach a course that stresses exactly some of the things you're talking about -- de-escalate, avoid, dealing with close quarters problems... But they have a certain no-bs, political correctness doesn't matter style that I, for one, appreciate. Probably not for everyone, especially those who hold their cows sacred or believe in fairy tales.

They actually sound like people I would get along with in person. Maybe my personality doesn't translate well through my online persona. When I type I tend to type the way I think, not how I actually talk. Kinda like that guy who posts as Harleyrider_50 only not in gibberish.

I hold no sacred cows, and read no fairy tales. If I am wrong I appreciate being told and corrected by my teacher or instructor in a firm but professional manner. But if it is an instructor or teacher telling me I am wrong while insulting me, especially online, before I have even considered his place of business as a potential place to train. Do you really think I am going to go to a class taught by JdHaines now? No. Cedartop though he was not insulting did nothing to chastise who I would assume to be his subordinate, purely based on the info in their sig lines. So, Based on Jdhaines' conduct alone. I guess I can count Paladin Combatives out of future training places nor can I recommend them to anyone.

 

[rhino]

If someone goes through the trouble of carrying two Glock 19s, they might as well go the extra mile and carry an AR pistol or something....or an extra 5 magazines.

I'll have to make a note.

I don't know the author of the article, he must have started after I left, but carrying two Glocks the way he describes is not difficult. Many people carry a back up and this is the same thing except easier to get to and more firepower. I don't usually carry a second gun but if I do (mostly when travelling) it is in the manner he describes.

You should make it your standard practice, sir.

Modern hipsters in tight pants that text frighten me.

We all share that pain. Vacuum packers should not be used to apply one's trousers.

Carry as you see fit. I personally don't see the point in carrying two full or midsized guns as an EDC. Now I can see a point in a full sized primary and a subcompact or super compact backup, though I wouldn't do it personally, it just makes more logical sense.

If you can carry two that are identical, why would you choose to care one that is less capable? I submit that if someone needs to access and use a second or third gun, it would be better if it was as easy to operate effectively as the primary.

Question....were the 1911's hitting the target. Were they jamming/stopping.
I ask because real world if you need more than 8 rds. there is a lot more trouble than most any of us will encounter.
Last class I took I was the only 1911 on the line and had more hits in tighter groups than anyone.
Not a Glock knock so please do not take it that way.
My point is simple....hit what you are trying to stop. No matter what gun you are using just get it on target.

No one can predict how many rounds they will need in any given situation. Even if you study the statistics, they apply to the entire population or a large sample, not an individual. Once you are "selected" to resolve a problem where someone is trying to harm you, means, medians, ranges, and modes are meaningless.

While I understand what you're saying, what about the shots you may miss? If you miss twice, you're down to 6 more shots. Is that still enough?

The Glock 26 I am carrying right now holds 10, but I'm still carrying a spare mag.

The number of rounds you have equals the amount of time you have in a gunfight.
If I'm going to end up losing in a gunfight, it's not going to be because I didn't have enough ammo.

No one can answer those questions until after it's over. I'd rather have extra than not enough.

Good point. I carry 10 in my 1911. Plus 2 spare mags. Momma did not raise a fool.
Seriously. Get on and maintain target. Hits will come. Pressure shots are tough. Adrenalin will get you amped up and may get you to push too hard.
Practice, muscle memory, breathing. Easy to say but with practice comes muscle memory. I can get my side arm out and to the ready with just a thought. What happens from there I do not think any of us really want to experience.
When we practice it is always front site point and shoot. Yes, we do some target shooting for beers but the drill is point and send 2.

Even with perfect hits, no one can predict how many rounds it will take to resolve as specific confrontation. It's especially true if you face more than one assailant.

Dumb. I carry a single pistol for self protection and self preservation. In real life who needs an arsenal in their pants?

Good for you. What if it breaks when you need it, or it's already broken and you don't know until you need it?

 

[rhino]

Wow, this thing took a turn after I started my response and hit the limit for multiple quotes.

I think I just lost interest!

 

[chezuki]

"If you intend to teach me anything I don't already believe to be true, I'll look elsewhere for my training!!"

 

[MCgrease08]

"If you intend to teach me anything I don't already believe to be true, I'll look elsewhere for my training!!"

Sounds about right. I can think of a few that could use that as a sig line.

 

[Shiver]

I'll throw a bone...There are certainly some douchey people on this board. The problem is, you've stated in multiple posts pretty definitive statements regarding some things that you openly claim to have no ideas about. If they were presented as "I've heard this, is it true?" or "This is what I was taught, what does everyone think?" or "Could you back up why you think X?" or "Here's my opinion." or "etc." then you wouldn't be getting the flaming you are now. Myself and Mike specifically, and many of the good guys on this forum (many of which are involved in this thread) will go to great lengths to explain things and be un-douchey. The problem is we've written at length on many of these topics. We've argued points, changed our minds, read other expert opinions, spent countless hours training and testing dearly hold beliefs, etc to get to the point we are today. Some are just starting (sounds like yourself) and some have been doing it a moderate amount of time (myself) and some have done it for a very long time. There is a general "state of the industry" on many of these topics which have grown to the point they are through the work of various people. By not reading and understanding what has come before and arguing from a point of ignorance (which is obvious to those of us who discuss these things on a continual basis) it's often easier to throw out a couple lines flaming the new guy. IF you are that new guy then you get the brunt of people acting mean.

I think most of us are plenty welcome to extinguish the flames if someone steps up and wants to discuss things in an honest manner. A few will still joke because it's what they do (which is fine.) Telling us to look up hapkido arm destructions tells us all many things. One of which is you probably haven't done a lot of training in a real-pressure environment (that's ok, many haven't). The second is that you are likely going to be part of a larger group of people who want to take the easy road out and discuss things like pressure points and groin strikes to avoid getting sweaty, bruised, and ego-smashed by testing some of these things with someone who is allowed to fight back. Being in the former is fine as long as you have the right attitude about it. Being in the latter group is understandable early on but the quicker you come to realize it's the wrong path, the better off you'll be. And pushing us to adopt the same ideas won't get any traction.

I'll drop the flames for now, and I know Mike will give you an honest response later on to your previous question. By the way, I don't understand why that particular point keeps sticking. We would never teach someone to just keep shooting, or to get the hell out of dodge. It's a lot more complicated than that. Either or both could be correct given the state of a huge number of other variables.

I actually did say that it was mostly based on my own opinions. Very early on. The Arm thing was probably stupid on my part yes, but I admittedly got caught up in TRYING, but failing to explain what was on my mind. If someone tries to grab you it is a place that can be a potential target to cause pain and create an opening for escape. Again just my opinion based and what I have been taught in the past. A bash to the face or kick to the knee would probably be better and more effective and I did say as much.

Thanks for the honest response this time.

 

[Shiver]

"If you intend to teach me anything I don't already believe to be true, I'll look elsewhere for my training!!"

I am all knowing about knowing nothing.