Brace Ban

[bwframe]

I don't disagree that NRA changes are needed. How are they so different at the top than any other large organization?

Lets not forget who dug up and exposed "the dirt" on WLP. The anti's knew the kids and other loud NRA fence sitters would run with this. They were right.

The libs know divide and conquer so well. They are excellent at it.

Yes, the anti's call the gun owner abandonment of the NRA a win. How can they not, just look at the results. A lost presidential election.

 

[IndyDave1776]

My question: How am I helping the opposition by not giving money to an organization that refuses to do anything but cry for more money? I could do as much good throwing money out my window as I drive down the interstate.

 

[jamil]

Taking half of her votes in Nevada would have won.
Half of her votes in WI would have won.
1/3 of her GA votes would have won
1/5 of AZ votes would have won

He abandoned his young gun base and they went 3rd party just to be heard.

This is why we need to let our congressmen know to keep fighting to restore our rights and earn the trust of the young gun vote again. Even with the atf backing out of their latest brace attack they won't stop as long as Lombardo is at the helm.

I think you're assuming that were it not for Trump's bump stock ban by fiat, that those portions of the votes that went for Jo Jorgensen would have gone for Trump, and that's not a good or even provable assumption. What I'm saying to you is that I doubt that the "young gun" vote made a difference in the outcome. I'll grant that maybe 20% of Jorgensens's votes could have gone for Trump if Trump were better liked. I think it's a stretch to believe that it was all "young guns". But half of Jorgensen's NV votes, Half in WI, 1/3 in GA? That's a far stretch.

 

[Ingomike]

And all of that goes away if the NRA cleans house and puts Wayne out on his ass. The future of the NRA rests with the NRA.

There were other ways to go about this. We don't always get the purity we desire in politics, and that is what the NRA is, politics. I do not believe the NRA will ever wield the power they once did...

 

[jamil]

I dont see his name.

Only Bucshon and Banks at my quick scan. Cant search by name because the copy I have is an image not a document.

the rest deserve a letter.

Actually they ALL deserve a letter. either a thank you or a "what were you thinking?"

I'll be writing to Trey Hollingsworth asking for an explanation for why he did not sign onto that letter.

 

[maxwelhse]

That is exactly what the anti's wanted. No money to help elect Trump, no money to get senators elected, no money to get the attention of the elected officials we must keep in line to hold the line. The politicians know the NRA cannot turn out the vote for or against them now they once could, there were other options but the anti's manipulated the purity sentiment in many members and the organization may never recover.

You guys that actually believe NRA money is what lost Trump the election are quite possibly on the blurred edge of reality. 2A was not even a topic of this election, and thank God it wasn't because Trump would have had to explain being worse on 2A than Obama was, including right up to literally this moment. Like it or not, that's true in terms of actual policy achievements. Republicans actually did very well down ballet and at the state level, so the NRA didn't help or hurt there either if that's the litmus test.

Like McG said, the NRA's future is in the NRA's hands. Running around and skirting the brim of telling some of us we're anti-2A because we don't support NRA leadership at this time (especially because you believe "we" lost Trump the election ) is likely to turn the conversation sour in a hurry.

I can't remember for sure, but I think it might have been you who I chatted with before the election to let you know that you could also just give money straight to the RNC or Trump's campaign. There's not anything that makes the money better spent if it buy's Wayne a suit on the way down the line. The NRA isn't the only game in town. If you really want to rally the troops, start ringing the bell for the other options.

 

[jamil]

There were other ways to go about this. We don't always get the purity we desire in politics, and that is what the NRA is, politics. I do not believe the NRA will ever wield the power they once did...

That may be true, but they undid themselves.

 

[Ggreen]

I think you're assuming that were it not for Trump's bump stock ban by fiat, that those portions of the votes that went for Jo Jorgensen would have gone for Trump, and that's not a good or even provable assumption. What I'm saying to you is that I doubt that the "young gun" vote made a difference in the outcome. I'll grant that maybe 20% of Jorgensens's votes could have gone for Trump if Trump were better liked. I think it's a stretch to believe that it was all "young guns". But half of Jorgensen's NV votes, Half in WI, 1/3 in GA? That's a far stretch.

It's really not a stretch when you look at the demographics and social media following jo and spike had. Dismissing the young vote and young issues loses elections. A brace ban uncontested by repubs would have lead to losing any chance at a majority in the next cycle. Every inch matters, keep letting our reps know it

 

[Expat]

It's cute that you think that not liking the bloat and corruption of the NRA equals being anti-gun.

It is even cuter that you think the NRA bashing on the INGO started when word of Wayne's corruption came out.
Before that it was they weren't pure enough or that they sent too many mailings. Even then we were told the GOA was our only hope.
We used to have a valued member here that had served as a Congressional aide. He said the NRA was the only one at that time lobbying in Congress. They were the only one that Congress knew of and had fear of. He said reached out to the GOA a few times and they would never respond.

 

[Ingomike]

Facts. If the nra were a serious gun advocacy group they would clean house like wounded warrior did. The anti 2a crowd had nothing to do with the nra falling out of favor. Nra executive greed, anti 2a initiatives in concealed carry, and finally the bumpstock rollover did a good enough job losing support from genx and younger. The 40 and under crowd expects an about face and a lockstep no negotiation approach. As the nra loses ground with younger voters they lose ground with politicians. Standing loud and proud, using msm contracts to get ila ppl on cable news fighting for braces would have helped, but they didn't. Maybe they have lost enough credibility that even fox won't give them a segment though.

Creating your own "facts" I see.

Those in a power struggle against WPL engaged the NY anti-gun power structure to eliminate WPL, they most definitely had a place in sewing the discord in the members that got us where we are.

 

[Ingomike]

You guys that actually believe NRA money is what lost Trump the election are quite possibly on the blurred edge of reality. 2A was not even a topic of this election, and thank God it wasn't because Trump would have had to explain being worse on 2A than Obama was, including right up to literally this moment. Like it or not, that's true in terms of actual policy achievements. Republicans actually did very well down ballet and at the state level, so the NRA didn't help or hurt there either if that's the litmus test.

Like McG said, the NRA's future is in the NRA's hands. Running around and skirting the brim of telling some of us we're anti-2A because we don't support NRA leadership at this time (especially because you believe "we" lost Trump the election ) is likely to turn the conversation sour in a hurry.

I can't remember for sure, but I think it might have been you who I chatted with before the election to let you know that you could also just give money straight to the RNC or Trump's campaign. There's not anything that makes the money better spent if it buy's Wayne a suit on the way down the line. The NRA isn't the only game in town. If you really want to rally the troops, start ringing the bell for the other options.

I never said anyone advocating withholding money was anti 2A just that they were shooting the same direction as the anti's. As far as the election again the anti's know how to divide us between the practical and pure...

 

[bwframe]

"We" better fool around and learn from obvious results here.

The libs win because they always stick together, regardless of differing/dissenting beliefs.

They know this well and have used this to effectively divide us.

Hopefully, we will learn from this before things have to get much worse? How many more losses will it take?

 

[maxwelhse]

I never said anyone advocating withholding money was anti 2A just that they were shooting the same direction as the anti's. As far as the election again the anti's know how to divide us between the practical and pure...

Yeah...

I'm saying the gray area you're granting yourself there is so close to being the same thing that it's approaching a difference without a distinction. Some of you guys need to soften the message a little if you're hoping to sway any hearts and minds here.

If the goal is to unite us, then preach the gospel in a way that doesn't include the damnation sermon. NRA or else is not a winning message.

 

[jamil]

"We" better fool around and learn from obvious results here.

The libs win because they always stick together, regardless of differing/dissenting beliefs.

They know this well and have used this to effectively divide us.

Hopefully, we will learn from this before things have to get much worse? How many more losses will it take?

That’s a ridiculous dichotomy you’re setting up there. Pay the WLP tax or lose. Nonsense.

 

[Expat]

I think WLP needs to go for several reasons. We should also keep in mind that he did pay back $300,000 in expenses that were in question. We need a strong NRA and that can not occur while Wayne is there, IMO.

 

[jamil]

I never said anyone advocating withholding money was anti 2A just that they were shooting the same direction as the anti's. As far as the election again the anti's know how to divide us between the practical and pure...

That’s another ridiculous dichotomy. It’s not between the practical and the pure. You present that as if there’s something wrong with not supporting corruption. Someone above said that if the NRA were serious about protecting out gun rights, WLP would be gone. There’s a lot of truth to that. If WLP could be the head of Greenpeace and be able to misuse funds for his personal benefit, I’m pretty certain he’d be fine with leaching off of them. I’ll donate to NRA-ILA, but **** WLP.

 

[maxwelhse]

I think WLP needs to go for several reasons. We should also keep in mind that he did pay back $300,000 in expenses that were in question. We need a strong NRA and that can not occur while Wayne is there, IMO.

To not do so seems like it could have invited some criminal proceedings... Hardly a saint there. Plus as I understand it he did quite a lot to run other good patriots out of the NRA when this all shook down.

WLP absolutely needs to leave.

 

[bwframe]

The NRA naysayers were warned early, well before the election this year. They were told that a weakened neutered NRA would result in poor or no lobbying and advertising for the 2A throughout the election.

This is what the NRA does. It is their job. It is why we are members. SO THAT OUR VOICE AS GUN OWNERS IS HEARD.

Now here we are...

 

[jamil]

The NRA naysayers were warned early, well before the election this year. They were told that a weakened neutered NRA would result in poor or no lobbying and advertising for the 2A throughout the election.

This is what the NRA does. It is their job.

Now here we are...

I think you’re attributing things to wrong things.

 

[bwframe]

The NRA naysayers were warned early, well before the election this year. They were told that a weakened neutered NRA would result in poor or no lobbying and advertising for the 2A throughout the election.


This is what the NRA does. It is their job. It is why we are members. SO THAT OUR VOICE AS GUN OWNERS IS HEARD.


Now here we are...

I think you’re attributing things to wrong things.

Understood.

I think you and those like you lost the election for us.