Carry at an establishment that serves alcohol

[rhino]

There is no way I would enter a bar unarmed.

In fact, the last time I was in a bar (a couple of weeks ago), I carried openly.

 

[USMC_0311]

I've never done anything drunk I wouldn't have done sober. Sure I may have been a bit bolder about it, but I still didn't turn into some sort of homicidal maniac.

I doubt seriously that you ever been “drunk”. Tipsy, louder, bolder (lord help us if this is true and you ever do get really drunk) maybe but **** face drunk no way you are not made like that.

An alcoholic may not have had a drink in 20 years. They are still an alcoholic, just one that no longer drinks.

True statement but if you take that and apply it to these statements

I personally think people who can't drink and carry a gun shouldn't be carrying a gun when sober either. If they have that little self control... well, the booze is being used as an excuse, it's not the cause.

It is completely true. If you know you get that way when drinking you shouldn't be drinking at all. You could easily grab a knife, chair, broken beer bottle, pool cue ect. I think you take offense to what I say because it's true and directly applies to you. Look how you try and justify yourself:

If you got these sorts of issues with alcohol you need help. You also should own a gun if you can't control yourself and stay away from the bottle. THAT is why I said people who can't control themselves with a gun while drinking shouldn't have a gun while sober.

One has to wonder.
Are you saying alcoholics can’t choose to be sober and responsible? Or someone who has got drunk once or twice and got out of control is not able to make a decision not to drink and should not carry at all?
I am just amazed on how you were able to diagnose someone over a thread in an internet forum. Never meeting them, just a few post and you make some pretty harsh allegations based on a juvenile understanding of the disease. People need to know themselves and how alcohol affects them, if they know that they can make responsible decisions on whether or not they should carry while visiting a bar(and/or drinking).

 

[NateIU10]

There is no way I would enter a bar unarmed.

In fact, the last time I was in a bar (a couple of weeks ago), I carried openly.

That got me kicked out of Cheeseburger in Paradise lol. Guy came up as the "owner" (I knew they were corporately owned) and told me it was illegal. I told him that was in fact incorrect as no IC or ordinance stated that. He stammered and then I asked him why they would not have the hostess tell me something instead of when they set my food down?

 

[Prometheus]

One has to wonder.
Are you saying alcoholics can’t choose to be sober and responsible? Or someone who has got drunk once or twice and got out of control is not able to make a decision not to drink and should not carry at all?

In the post you quote I made it clear. Here it is again:

I personally think people who can't drink and carry a gun shouldn't be carrying a gun when sober either. If they have that little self control... well, the booze is being used as an excuse, it's not the cause.

It is completely true. If you know you get that way when drinking you shouldn't be drinking at all. You could easily grab a knife, chair, broken beer bottle, pool cue ect.

Let me simplify it. If a person is going to get violent because you have a gun available, whats to preclude them from picking something else and killing/injuring someone with any random item that might be found in a bar, from a pool cue, to knife, beer bottle, stool or whatever.

I am not saying just because someone gets drunks (and doesn't get violent) should preclude them from anything while sober and little while drunk. I also didn't say that alcholoics shouldn't be able to own guns.

Again I'm refering to a person who knows they get violent and continues to drink anyway.

I am just amazed on how you were able to diagnose someone over a thread in an internet forum. Never meeting them, just a few post and you make some pretty harsh allegations based on a juvenile understanding of the disease.

Continue to be amazed... I also don't believe that alcoholism is a disease. An addiction? Absoultely. A disorder? If you like. A disease? No. I am well aware of the intricacies of alcoholism. Some people are certainly predisposed to alcoholism via genetics or certain chemical receptors. That in no way changes an addiction into a disease. To do so removes the individuals sense of responsibility. "I can't help I'm a drunk, I have a disease". Sorry I don't buy it. They have an addiction. They may need additional help battling their addiction because of genetics, but it's still an addiciton.

I liken it to the obesity "disease". Again some people are predisposed via genetics, some people take medications for other diseases that cause weigth gain and obesity... a great example is diabetics, especially those who've been on insulin for decades. Obesity isn't their disease. It is a SYMPTOM of a disease, in this case diabeties. These people cannot help being obese (to a degree). It's a losing battle. Other people simply choose to be obese. Thats a topic in and of itself and I'm digressing at this point.

People need to know themselves and how alcohol affects them, if they know that they can make responsible decisions on whether or not they should carry while visiting a bar(and/or drinking).

I agree.

 

[Glock Lover]

With all due respect, I get so tired of hearing the "if you can responsibly drink than you can (insert here)" argument. That's the same argument you hear about driving under the influence. There's no way around it, your ability to make decisions, your reflexes, judgement, etc. are affected when you drink.

Your last statement, "I personally think people who can't drink and carry a gun shouldn't be carrying a gun when sober either" is utterly ridiculous. I, and most people, CAN do almost ANYTHING while drinking. CAN and SHOULD are two different things.

I agree 100%. I deal with drunk drivers on a regular basis in my line of work, and almost every one of them thinks they are in control, when they clearly are not, and are not making good decisions. THIS Statement about carrying a weapon while drunk is ridiculous honestly.

 

[rhino]

That got me kicked out of Cheeseburger in Paradise lol. Guy came up as the "owner" (I knew they were corporately owned) and told me it was illegal. I told him that was in fact incorrect as no IC or ordinance stated that. He stammered and then I asked him why they would not have the hostess tell me something instead of when they set my food down?

Was that the one in Bloomington? I've never carried openly there (only been there once).

 

[NateIU10]

Was that the one in Bloomington? I've never carried openly there (only been there once).

Yup. I actually called into the corporate owner for the area and he got an earful, and I haven't been back since

Nothing makes me angrier than the "look, we're gun owners too..." argument

 

[USMC_0311]

Continue to be amazed... (You give us no choice ) I also don't believe that alcoholism is a disease. An addiction? Absoultely. A disorder? If you like. A disease? No. I am well aware of the intricacies of alcoholism. Some people are certainly predisposed to alcoholism via genetics or certain chemical receptors. That in no way changes an addiction into a disease. To do so removes the individuals sense of responsibility. "I can't help I'm a drunk, I have a disease". Sorry I don't buy it. They have an addiction. They may need additional help battling their addiction because of genetics, but it's still an addiciton.

I liken it to the obesity "disease". Again some people are predisposed via genetics, some people take medications for other diseases that cause weigth gain and obesity... a great example is diabetics, especially those who've been on insulin for decades. Obesity isn't their disease. It is a SYMPTOM of a disease, in this case diabeties. These people cannot help being obese (to a degree). It's a losing battle. Other people simply choose to be obese. Thats a topic in and of itself and I'm digressing at this point.

I agree.

Well I would argue this in another post but you want to play internet doctor. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you have told us that your occupation is an EMT. That’s Emergency Medical Tech? Right? Not MD Prometheus. But if you prefer I will call you doc promo. Regardless of whether or not Alcoholism is a disease or an addiction you are not qualified to make a diagnosis. Your assumptions of another poster are juvenile and rude. The above mentioned "addictions" are diseases and are listed on the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services website. http://dhhs.gov/diseases/index.shtml This is not news it’s been widely accepted by Doctors and other health care officials for quite some time. Addiction is what causes the disease. I have seen what alcoholism does, it killed my dad and grandfather, it took my grandma’s arm and it tried to take my mother. My mother has been sober over 25 years and is a respected counselor now. She has been in the alcohol/drug treatment business for 15 years. Oh yea she could be a mean drunk too, she carries a gun and has no business drinking.
Now doc you can start with your “genetics exception” and diagnose me. You would be wrong again.

Maybe we just need to go down to the VFW have a few drinks and shoot the ****.

 

[techres]

Personally, I get to be designated driver and designated CCW as well - works well for me!

As for this post, I find only one thing in question: two IU students who present themselves as something other than drunk, passed out in their own puke, with sharpied comments written all over them, left lying on top of an IUPD cruiser by their "bro's".

Anything other than that is just hard to believe when it comes to IU students... I mean, really!

 

[Prometheus]

Well I would argue this in another post but you want to play internet doctor. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you have told us that your occupation is an EMT. That’s Emergency Medical Tech? Right?

I was a Fire Fighter and EMT in Florida and I do have a current Indiana EMT-B certification. I have not worked as an EMT (or FireFighter) in roughly 9 years.

Regardless of whether or not Alcoholism is a disease or an addiction you are not qualified to make a diagnosis.

I never made a diagnosis Observations based on facts supplied. Nothing more.

The above mentioned "addictions" are diseases and are listed on the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services website. http://dhhs.gov/diseases/index.shtml This is not news it’s been widely accepted by Doctors and other health care officials for quite some time. Addiction is what causes the disease.

This from the same people who say your gun is more likely to kill you than an intruder? The same people who say 9 "kids" (show a pic of a 5 year old girl) a day are killed by gunfire but when you drop out those 16 and over it's one a day and when you drop out gang members that number drops to barely 1 a month. Yeah... political bias is one thing, hard science is another.

I have seen what alcoholism does, it killed my dad and grandfather, it took my grandma’s arm and it tried to take my mother. My mother has been sober over 25 years and is a respected counselor now. She has been in the alcohol/drug treatment business for 15 years. Oh yea she could be a mean drunk too, she carries a gun and has no business drinking.

I'm sorry to hear about that. I've seen friends who grew up in similar situations. Saw my friend thrown into the side of a car by his drunk dad one day, and then get beat for denting it. Seems like you have your act together. Unfortunately for my friend he didn't turn out so well.

Now doc you can start with your “genetics exception” and diagnose me. You would be wrong again.

Glad you realize you have a predisposition. I'm not sure where "you would be wrong again" would come into that however. I made an observation (you are predisposed based on family history) based on what facts you gave me. I'm not sure how repeating the facts is in any way diagnosing. I never claimed you have any alcohol abuse issues. Althought your fascination with my drinking habits and if i've ever been "**** faced drunk" is a bit disconcerting

 

[singlestacksig]

I agree 100%. I deal with drunk drivers on a regular basis in my line of work, and almost every one of them thinks they are in control, when they clearly are not, and are not making good decisions. THIS Statement about carrying a weapon while drunk is ridiculous honestly.

carry while drinking , ok..
getting drunk while carrying, not a good idea..
But one can drink without getting "drunk" ..yes the legal limit for driving is one thing.. but that does not change the right of a person to have a gun..

 

[Bigum1969]

Some people wrongly believe denial is the indicator. Projection (as what I as refering to) is what I went on. Denial can suspicions. Big difference. Having alcohol in the house or not means nothing. An alcoholic may not have had a drink in 20 years. They are still an alcoholic, just one that no longer drinks.

Quote: "I, and most people, CAN do almost ANYTHING while drinking." is clearly projecting.

What are you inferring I am denying? What exactly am I projecting?

You seem to be fascinated by my statement: "I, and most people, CAN do almost ANYTHING while drinking. CAN and SHOULD are two different things."

Let me break this down so you can understand it. All this statement means is that you can drive, walk, carry a gun, have sex or any number of things while drinking. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I'll leave it to you to decide what you should do while drinking.

I'm eager to learn from your professional medical opinion what I'm now projecting. Maybe I've now moved from an alcoholic to a meth addict. Let me know so I can get myself proper treatment

 

[wp wrecks]

carry while drinking , ok..
getting drunk while carrying, not a good idea..
But one can drink without getting "drunk" ..yes the legal limit for driving is one thing.. but that does not change the right of a person to have a gun..

Well said!

 

[Smitty506th]

I carry everywhere except school and the restricted places. I carry when I go out. I know I'm not the only person who has and I really haven't seen a lot of news about people who legally carry who get trashed and shoot up a bar or otherwise make us all look bad. I would bet a few body parts that stuff would be on almost every channel if it happened with any frequency.

The numbers say that those of us who carry LEGALY use our heads and do the right thing.

I say GO US! Lets keep it up.

 

[JByer323]

Yup. I actually called into the corporate owner for the area and he got an earful, and I haven't been back since

Nothing makes me angrier than the "look, we're gun owners too..." argument

That's what you get for trusting Jimmy Buffet to make you food.

I carry when I go to a bar or tavern that I plan on getting a meal at. I am also willing to carry, and get a single beer or glass of wine with dinner. No more then that, though.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I am picturing bars, parties, etc with lots of drinking, large crowd and drunken idiocy. People falling on you drunk and vomiting, telling you how much they love you, then passing out at your feet while you are singing karaoke.

Is it legal to have a gun there? sure. Is it the most intelligent move to have a gun there? Nope.

I simply cannot agree with you. At all. Lets set aside the drunks puking at your feet (I've never seen that in any club or bar I've been to).

Take a responsible adult. Arm him/her. Exactly why is that person less worth of being able to defend themselves because they went to a bar or club with some friends for a few hours?

You didn't even stipulate that the person carrying was sober or drunk. Just that they were around some drunk people.

I grew up in South Florida. I partied. A lot. I was always armed (which isn't legal in Florida if you are in a place that derives more than 50% of it's income from the sale of alcohol). No drugs, but I would drink. My wife (then girl friend and later fiancee) insisted I carry. One of the reasons I fell for her as hard as I did.

Did I need a weapon in the clubs/bars we would frequent? Not any more so than shopping at Publix, they were all nice places. Did I need a weapon going back to the car? Absolutely! For those familiar with S. Florida I frequented Clematis Street in WPB and Las Olas in Lauderdale. Both very nice and controlled areas, but most of the parking was just outside of the containment area.

Just because we enjoyed dancing and hanging out with friends... does that mean we deserved to be robbed or murdered because people like you don't think we should be allowed to defend ourselves? I also refused to stay at home and let the criminals win by keeping us from going out and enjoying ourselves.

Sorry but it comes down to personal responsibility. If you can responsibly drink and carry a firearm. Good for you. If you can't, don't!

I personally think people who can't drink and carry a gun shouldn't be carrying a gun when sober either. If they have that little self control... well, the booze is being used as an excuse, it's not the cause.

Rephrase: You quoted Mrs. Hoppes. I saw that, where you then chastised her for saying she didn't think it was the most intelligent move to be armed in a place such as she described. Not that anyone should or should not be armed, just that to be so in that situation, she thought was less than intelligent. Conversely, you came out and said that there were some people (not criminals) you thought should not be armed, even when sober. I don't see why she deserved to be chastised in your eyes when your own statement was IMHO, far more intrusive and overbearing. It is that discrepancy I did not see you address. Would you please clarify?

"IMHO" was the operative phrase in your post.

I believe that mrs hoppes suggestion that she thinks people should be disarmed and easy victims simply because they have chosen a legal place to be is worse than my suggestion that people without any self control should not carry a firearm.

I cannot see how you would disagree with that.

Perhaps she will read this and clarify, but reading her post, re-quoted here, I read not that she said people should be disarmed and easy victims, only that to be armed in such a place as she described is not, in HER opinion, intelligent. There was no statement of whether they should or not.

Your post said that you didn't think those who can't drink and carry should carry even when they're not drinking. I guess what I wonder is why you focus on their carrying, rather than on their drinking. I know quite a few alcoholics. Most have quite a bit of self-control, in that they choose not to drink- some have made that choice every day for many years. (of note, I speak of alcoholics, not "drunks"... as the old joke says, "alcoholics go to meetings.") The sole fact that to consume alcohol is, for them, an exceptionally bad idea does not in any way mean that they should be defenseless, nor that it is unintelligent for them to arm themselves. They need to exercise their self-control and not drink, "Just for today" and "one day at a time."



Blessings,
Bill

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Total lack of self control (as your alcoholism implies) lends itself to the rest of your life as well. I've never met an alcoholic who had any decent judgment when sober let alone while they were drunk.

The bolded statement reflects either your lack of experience or inability to judge people. I do not care which it is. Simply, you are wrong. By painting with a wide brush, your statement goes overboard and is not believable or accurate.

Sadly, many alcoholics do have problems that affect other areas of their lives. This is not true of all individuals. To state that an alcoholic does not have decent judgment is absolutely wrong!

I am not condoning alcoholism. However, it is NOT appropriate to make sweeping generalizations in the manner that you have. I think you've made some good points in this discussion, but they are negated by unreasonable ones. Please do not respond, as I don't care what you have to say about this. I am simply writing to inform you that you are not correct. I hope you are able to see that.

 

[Turtle]

I carry at the bar. But I'm usually the driver and only have 2 beers when I first get there. But honestly I dont carry just for protection.... I used to be a bouncer and more than capable at defending my self without one. I just really like guns

 

[Nathan]

wow, a 6 page pissing match!!!

caint we all just get along??!!

i guess with this many users and such a broad range of perception and attitude, arguments are inevitable. back to the original question/post

i did not know it wasn't illegal to carry into bars. does this include strip bars? hehe, "is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" yup, its a gun.

i have never carried into a bar or equivalant facility, but then again, i've always drank my fair share. more than likely, i'll try it someday and not drink to the extend i usually do.

as for you other guys, if you don't have something factual or intellectual to add, please keep your biased, discriminative statements to yourself....not to mention any names....you know who you are

 

[ATM]

Now everyone sing along...

But I'd rather have a bottle in front of me,
Than have to have a frontal lobotomy.
I might be drunk, but at least I'm not insane.