Denied Purchase

[jwfuhrman]

How the hell is my sister not a direct family member?

 

[Squirt239]

Purchasing a firearm for a member of your immediate family to give as a gift is not a "STRAW" purchase. I have clearly stated to the owners of several shops that I am purchasing a firearm for my 2 sons and Wife on several occasions never had a problem!

You are correct, however you are also incorrect. The husband couldn't fill out the paperwork properly with legal form (correct) ID. Thus, the sale must be cancelled. His wife in turn cannot fill out the paperwork for him. That IS a straw sale.

You can purchase a firearm for ANYONE. You could buy me one if you wanted to. But, where the sticky situation is, is if I wasn't LEGALLY allowed to purchase, or got delayed, etc. then you couldn't buy it for me.

 

[ryknoll3]

Was just down at Bradis purchasing Ammo for NFA Day. And A similar situation occurred. And What I heard them say is that ATF allows you to purchase a firearm as a gift for your Immediate Family. That basically means spouse, son or daughter, living in the same house. I also think you could buy for a grandchild. But brother or sister, cousin probably not, Because It was explained to me one time that the person has to be a "Direct descendant" to be covered by the rule.

That's incorrect. You may purchase firearms to give as a gift to ANYONE who is otherwise legally allowed to possess them (a reasonable belief is what is required on your part). You could buy a firearm and give it as a gift to the first stranger you see walking out the door of the gun shop. There is no family requirements for purchase. The only firearm situation that family comes into play is guns being passed down to heirs (can be sent across state lines to effect transfer without a dealer) and NFA (can be passed on to legal heirs tax free, though a transfer through the ATF is still required). State laws may vary though. IN law matches federal in this regard.

Also, it is a STRAW purchase. A STRAWMAN is an argument. Just to clarify...

 

[thumperdogg]

Ok guys thanks for all the info!! I used a car payment and a LTCH and was lucky enough to update my DL. They gave me a temporary printed license, I guess they mail the new ones now (seems like a risky thing), but I called and lucky me again they are allowed to accept it. Bought the shotgun I wanted and couldn't be more happy with it!

+1 To MC Sports again for following the rules. I was a bit whinny about the situation, but all is under control now.

PS The sales people in the firearms department were as helpful and polite as could be!! Keep up the good work fellas!!!

 

[Darral27]

I have a different address on my DL than the address I live at and have never had a problem. My address is correctly listed through the BMV. Just had a messed up situation and was unable to get a new DL until recently.

 

[JetGirl]

I would understand completing the app and getting a rejection, then not allowing her to do so, but I was not denied, just didn't have the proper credintials.

I seem something like that happen but in this case the DL was expire and the husband wanted his wife to do the paperwork and the owner of the shop did not let them.

The fact that the first attempt did not have the documentation needed means that the person attempting the purchase could NOT "at that time" buy. Immediately sending person #2 to attempt the purchase is "purchasing for someone who could NOT buy". (Even though his situation may be temporary).

Purchasing a firearm for a member of your immediate family to give as a gift is not a "STRAW" purchase.

It is if the person can NOT buy for themselves...and at that time, he could not.

I heard that too from a gun dealer, that buying a gun for a spouse is legal.

As stated upthread, you can buy for any proper person as a gift...but if an attempt was made and could not follow through, that person could not at that time buy.

So by the OP not having a a valid government ID without the proper address listed he is now a "prohibited person" and if his wife completed the sale it would have been a straw purchase.

Thus, the sale must be cancelled. His wife in turn cannot fill out the paperwork for him. That IS a straw sale.

There ya have it ^.

 

[shooter521]

If you have a vehicle registration with the new address, that will work.

Actually, ANY documents issued by the state or federal government that bear the correct address will suffice as alternate identification for the purposes of completing the 4473. This includes your LTCH, which the MC Sports sales guy should have known.

 

[bingley]

+1 To MC Sports again for following the rules. I was a bit whinny about the situation, but all is under control now.

It's OK. That's what INGO is for. Sometimes even tough open carry guys need a support group.

Da Bing

 

[pinshooter45]

How the hell is my sister not a direct family member?

Your sister is not YOUR direct descendant, And really what some one else said is true If you purchase a gun and want to give it to the first stranger you see on the street you should be able to. Like many Federal rules and regs they can be murky. I mean what's the difference between giving some one else a gun 1 minute after you buy it. Or thirty days later? Would one be a straw purchase and the other not simply because it's 30 days later? I think much depends on what you say or don't say in front of the person in the shop you are buying the gun from. I'm not to worried about it Cause I'll probably never buy a gun for some one else anyway. But i's and interesting topic to discuss none the less!

 

[pute62]

Just wondering why you couldn't go back in the next day and fill out the paperwork with the address thats on the license?

 

[JetGirl]

Just wondering why you couldn't go back in the next day and fill out the paperwork with the address thats on the license?

Um, ethics?

 

[Sigasaurus]

Hey look at the bright side. At least you don't get put on a hold. I had to wait every time I bought a firearm until I got my upin. Talk about sucks waiting 2-3 days for something you paid for. Really stunk at the shows knew I would get put on a hold so never bother to pick up anything up other than accessories.

 

[caneman]

In IN, The last I knew for sure you had to get a new DL within 30 days although it may be at a reduced rate. At one thime (Don't know about now) the same held true for your carry permit.

 

[maxmayhem]

Get a new license-problems solved and other problems averted. It is the law though kind of dumb. Wife could not buy the gun because seller would know it was not for her. She could not answer the question honestly that asks, "Are you the ACTUAL purchaser of the firearm?" Although a LGS told me that I could buy a gun to "gift" to my sister in Tenn since she was immediate family. It seems like your wife would fit the bill for this. I think it comes down to the fact that you are not "lawfully" able to purchase and therefore she should not buy the firearm for someone who is not "lawfully" able to purchase one.

Bottom Line: Update your license or buy a gun from INGO!!!

 

[maxmayhem]

True

This is true. The gun seller would be reasonable to think that the wife is not buying the gun for herself but for someone who was, at the present time, not legally permitted to purchase one.

You are correct, however you are also incorrect. The husband couldn't fill out the paperwork properly with legal form (correct) ID. Thus, the sale must be cancelled. His wife in turn cannot fill out the paperwork for him. That IS a straw sale.

You can purchase a firearm for ANYONE. You could buy me one if you wanted to. But, where the sticky situation is, is if I wasn't LEGALLY allowed to purchase, or got delayed, etc. then you couldn't buy it for me.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

ORRRRR.... We could just ask Fred...

 

[jlin]

Sounds like the OP has got his DL updated already. For future reference, if you've got an AAA membership you can skip the long lines at the BMV and update/renew your DL/plates/whatever at select AAA offices:
AAA Hoosier - Membership - BMV Services at Offices

They don't offer all the same services as a BMV branch, but for most of the common stuff it's really quick and convenient.

 

[greyhound47]

Just wondering why you couldn't go back in the next day and fill out the paperwork with the address thats on the license?

In deference to JetGirl, it's also a crime.