Enhanced Interrogation- from a guy who did it, and saved a lot of lives

[Lex Concord]

“The Constitution and U.S. laws are not a treaty with the universe; they protect U.S. citizens.” - Former attorney general Michael Mukasey

What is the origin of the rights protected by the U.S. Constitution?

 

[Woobie]

I think a nation has the obligation protect its citizens' rights. It isn't obligated to protect other nations' citizens, but I don't mind if we extend the curtesy to our guests. If they're here legally.

Good point. I think if you accept them as your guest, certain courtesies are appropriate, including most of the protections of the BoR. But if they either do not fit that category, or they turn out to not have entered into our country in good faith, then they have no such rights.

 

[ATM]

This is some nonsense talk going on here. Nobody has any right to initiate force to extract information from another.

 

[HoughMade]

This is some nonsense talk going on here. Nobody has any right to initiate force to extract information from another.

Based on what?

 

[ATM]

Based on what?

Exactly.

The authority to torture someone for information does not exist.

 

[jamil]

This is some nonsense talk going on here. Nobody has any right to initiate force to extract information from another.

No one has a right to fly planes into skyscrapers either. Oh wait...

 

[jamil]

Exactly.

The authority to torture someone for information does not exist.

What about the authority to kill someone in war?

 

[ATM]

No one has a right to fly planes into skyscrapers either. Oh wait...

Charge them.

Oh wait.

 

[ATM]

What about the authority to kill someone in war?

What about it?

 

[jamil]

What about it?

Yer the one all IoF'y. You tell me.

 

[ATM]

Yer the one all IoF'y. You tell me.

Try to stay on task, you're just chattering again.

 

[jamil]

Just answer the question. You know what I'm asking. Dare to put yourself out there and give an honest answer.

 

[ATM]

Just answer the question. You know what I'm asking. Dare to put yourself out there and give an honest answer.

My honest answer to your non-question question is this:

The U.S. murders anyone they please, anywhere they please and attempt to justify it with the word "war".

We, the people, allow this - many even delight in it - but none of us could ever authorize it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is some nonsense talk going on here. Nobody has any right to initiate force to extract information from another.

I'm kinda in agreement, with the caveat "if they aren't certain the person has information."

 

[Kutnupe14]

I think a nation has the obligation protect its citizens' rights. It isn't obligated to protect other nations' citizens, but I don't mind if we extend the curtesy to our guests. If they're here legally.

Are you speaking of "other nation's citizens" in their home countries (which I agree), or that happen to be on US soil (which runs contrary to the spirit of the Constitution)

 

[ATM]

I'm kinda in agreement, with the caveat "if they aren't certain the person has information."

Even if they are certain they have information, there is no authority to torture a person to extract it.

 

[jamil]

My honest answer to your non-question question is this:

The U.S. murders anyone they please, anywhere they please and attempt to justify it with the word "war".

We, the people, allow this - many even delight in it - but none of us could ever authorize it.

That's the black helicopter tin foil obfuscated answer. I'm talking about open dialog like most people have.

So let's talk openly with unobfuscated dialog. Theoretically, if a state goes to war because they were provoked--in other words, they didn't initiate the force, the other party did, and this state was just protecting itself from agression of another, does that state have the right to kill to protect its citizens? And if it has the right to kill to protect itself, does it also have the right to extract information from the enemy using unpleasant means?

 

[ATM]

Are you speaking of "other nation's citizens" in their home countries (which I agree), or that happen to be on US soil (which runs contrary to the spirit of the Constitution)

The constitution is crap. It enables a class immune to consequences for crimes to rule over the rest of us.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Even if they are certain they have information, there is no authority to torture a person to extract it.

Constitutionally, I'd also agree. Practically, I would not.

 

[jamil]

Are you speaking of "other nation's citizens" in their home countries (which I agree), or that happen to be on US soil (which runs contrary to the spirit of the Constitution)

Are they citizens or not? If they've participated in evil against us, and they are not citizens, I don't see what difference the border makes. The terrorist that we had in custody that was supposed to have been on one of the planes on 9/11, should we have treated him as we would a citizen, just because he was inside our borders?