Fed Up

[actaeon277]

The Fourth Amendment has limitations. Just as the Second Amendment, the First Amendment, and ALL Amendments.

The most common example is that anyone entitled to the benefits of the U.S. Constitution may not shout "FIRE!" in a crowded theater if there is not, in fact, a fire.

There is, for example, NO 'right' in the Second Amendment to OC. Nor is there for CC for that matter. Nor is there any 'right' to OC provided in the Indiana Constitution under Article 1 Section 32.: "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."

Does the right to OC exist in Indiana? Yes. But it is implicit, not specific. Just as it is with the 2A.

So ANY notion that 'it MUST apply to everyone ALL the time' is nonsensical, and baseless. There ARE, and historically have been, times when even those rights outlined in the Constitution have been limited. And no doubt, will be again at some point in the future.

It's not JUST a matter of, as on poster opined, "have you even read it?". It's a matter of IF one understands the Constitution, and the limitations that even that document has.

I'm not sure where anyone would get the notion, but there appears to be an opinion that, in the case of the Boston manhunt, the LEO's "Can't search without a warrant because the Fourth Amendment says so! I have the RIGHT!"

That's NOT what the 4A says. 4A is a right against unreasonable searches (and seizures), which may not be performed without warrant and affidavit.

Searching for a madman that has already detonated multiple bombs (even after the marathon) killed at least 4 people, wounded another 180 or so, and which HE (NOT the Police nor the MA National Guard) had the Boston / Watertown areas under siege would, likely, NOT be considered "unreasonable" even IF it imposes upon those citizens.

Lest you forget, it was because of the scumbag Tsarnaeva brothers, NOT the LEO's OR National Guard that folks were 'forced' off the streets, away from their jobs, parks, and daily lives, and 'restricted' indoors.

Would some prefer the alternative of letting such a maniac run loose, perhaps? Perhaps attend the Indianapolis area marathons with the same agenda?

'You' (whomever) may very well NOT be 'scared of that scumbag'. Understood. But he sure as hell isn't 'scared' of you, either. And he PROVED it by killing and wounding children, women, men, and LEO's. Dzhokhar Tsarnaeva was in TWO violent gun battles in less than 24 hours, and that p.o.s. is still here despite being shot multiple times. I think that qualifies him as having sufficient battleground credentials to be considered 'hardened'.

Probably better to subject the town to a temporary limitation of their 4A protection for the benefit of him NOT murdering more innocent lives, eh?

Wow, it boggles the mind that our unenlightened father's generation of cops could even solve a crime.
I mean, this is not the first "mass" anything. There have been shooting and bombings.
And yet, they were able to do it without trampling.
How did those poor people do it?

 

[in625shooter]

Wow, it boggles the mind that our unenlightened father's generation of cops could even solve a crime.
I mean, this is not the first "mass" anything. There have been shooting and bombings.
And yet, they were able to do it without trampling.
How did those poor people do it?

Yes however the TYPES of bombings and violence has uped the stage considerably. It has changed a LOT since I started 27 years ago. We are not talking about typical crooks in it for themselves now we are facing a group of evil with different mindsets than robbing or taking out rival criminal groups. Only monsters do it for their cause targeting mass casualties for shock. Funny no one complaines when Isreal takes care of buissness like the Boston area did in a similar fasion and they have faced this for decades. So I'd say they know what works.

To MODERNGUNNER, AWSOME POST!

 

[Tombs]

Yes however the TYPES of bombings and violence has uped the stage considerably. It has changed a LOT since I started 27 years ago. We are not talking about typical crooks in it for themselves now we are facing a group of evil with different mindsets than robbing or taking out rival criminal groups. Only monsters do it for their cause targeting mass casualties for shock. Funny no one complaines when Isreal takes care of buissness like the Boston area did in a similar fasion and they have faced this for decades. So I'd say they know what works.

To MODERNGUNNER, AWSOME POST!

Yea, Mossad did a bang up job in Benghazi.

Either way, how many of these mad bombers and mass killing terrorist groups have you faced down? The media coverage of events has been uped, the actual actions have fell.

 

[in625shooter]

Yea, Mossad did a bang up job in Benghazi.

Either way, how many of these mad bombers and mass killing terrorist groups have you faced down? The media coverage of events has been uped, the actual actions have fell.

Working in the Department of Justice (and yes in a LE position). I have looked at them (several of them individually) and delt with them more than you would want to and I will leave it at that!

 

[zippy23]

#1 you used the phrase "i dont think you will ever be subject this treatment. " Right there proves your problem. So laws and our constitution mean NOTHING in certain "circumstances" to you right? So basically you dont care about laws or freedom in certain situations right? And what if that situation is something you disagree with? My big boy pants are on, and when they come knocking on your door after they declare YOU A DOMESTIC TERRORIST for having guns(or whatever other reason they want), will you be ok with that? What is the point of laws if they are ok to break? My god you sound like a liberal, "put your big boy pants on....tin foil hats.....", this is classic liberal trash talk. They already want to go door to door in new york and California and take guns you MORON. but i'm sure you dont "think" that will happen right? If its time to come to the real world, then why havent you realized that the federal gov't has allowed themselves to drone strike americans? Allowed themselves to do whatever they want to YOU regardless of the constitution? They throw a guy in jail for making a movie and blame him for benghazi, are you living in reality? Using your own words, its time to put on the big boy pants and get out of your fantasy, as you even put it the threat has come to our doorstep, time to stamp out that threat, not cave into the demands of radical Muslims(as well as democrats). you can give up your freedom if you want, but dont come on here acting all high and mighty while admitting you have no backbone and trash talking actual Americans. save that crap for the yahoo comments section, you'll fit in very well over there.

 

[zippy23]

And for the "right to bear arms." Do you know the definition of bearing arms? To equip with arms, to have on your person arms, bearing something means having it with you, not just sitting in a locked up safe while you are at work. To bear something is to HAVE IT, to be EQUIPPED WITH IT. very simple, yes the second amendment directly says we can have it on your person.

 

[wrnyhuise]

Doc i can see your viewpoint but please let me address one part of your rant. In regard to the unlawful searches. you ask "you would rather we just let these guys walk off after committing a terrosrist action?" can i please ask you what difference there is from letting these guys walk free and the Administration letting them come in and go free already? Had the Government not been so soft in the beginning this wouldn't be an issue now would it? Now the American people suffer these kind of things because too many are too sensitive to actually admit we need to close this country up for awhile until we fix ourselves.

 

[indyjack]

we are in a fight that involves an enemy that has no problem attcking our women and children in a public place in order to accomplish their mission.

cause the u.s. would never do something like... say, bomb a wedding... or a funeral... right? i guess that's not terrorism, cause that's over there happening to someone else, right? i'm getting really tired of hypocrites...
Reporter Asks White House if U.S. Airstrikes That Kill Afghan Civilians Qualify as ‘Terrorism’ | Dispatches from the Underclass

 

[silverspoon]

And it's no small wonder this once great country is in the shape it's in.

We have citizens ready to give up their rights to feel safe.

We have a government ready to take those rights to have a little more control over the citizenry.

We have a certain element of our law enforcement community ready to trample any and every right just "to solve a case". I mean who fricken cares how they get there as long as they get there right? I mean the Constitution is merely another piece of paper eh?

The list could go on and on and on and on and on and on ......

I think it's time to split the country in half. The half that wants bigger more intrusive government move to your side of the Mississippi and the rest can move to the other side. Maybe then everyone can live what they believe to be their own particular dream.

 

[hornadylnl]

And it's no small wonder this once great country is in the shape it's in.

We have citizens ready to give up their rights to feel safe.

We have a government ready to take those rights to have a little more control over the citizenry.

We have a certain element of our law enforcement community ready to trample any and every right just "to solve a case". I mean who fricken cares how they get there as long as they get there right? I mean the Constitution is merely another piece of paper eh?

The list could go on and on and on and on and on and on ......

I think it's time to split the country in half. The half that wants bigger more intrusive government move to your side of the Mississippi and the rest can move to the other side. Maybe then everyone can live what they believe to be their own particular dream.

I think those who truly want liberty can fit inside the state of Rhode Island.

 

[LEaSH]

We're so doomed. We have no idea what the future may be.

If random terror attacks become more commonplace, and door to door searches do too, they'll be as accepted as for what they are for this incident.

4th amendment will be gone without a wimper.

It's so obvious that the east-coasters are so scared out of their minds that they'll allow it. And so many people here are as scared as well.

If my wife is in bed with a migraine headache and somebody thinks they're coming in to look around - they're going to have bloody mess on their hands. There is no reason on earth that we should allow this behavior.

 

[Project972]

we have found someone with no sense of humor. itis refreshing.

 

[jbombelli]

I think those who truly want liberty can fit inside [STRIKE]the state of [/STRIKE] Providence, Rhode Island.

Fixed it for you.

 

[rambone]

Any reason to believe it was anything but this?

Yes. The governor was not shy about announcing illegal searches in his press conference. Random searches are an "inconvenience."

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbFg9QcyIb8[/ame]

 

[deal me in]

The overwhelming majority of those who are members of this online forum surely agree with you. Unfortunately, there are a handful of those who tend to post....well.....oddball stuff that likely do not agree with you.

Most of their rants stem from an amazing misunderstanding of our Constitution, to whom it applies, and, much more importantly, to whom it does not apply. As for the searches that took place in Boston, the streets lined with the local citizens applauding their police says it all; everyone agreed with the need. When the citizens don't line the streets to show their support, then there might be a need to take a closer look.

The overwhelming majority I spoke of earlier tend to just ignore these rants, as they come from the same handful over and over again. That's my advice to you.

Very well said.

Thats sort of a broad brush picture there, You (and a LOT of others here on other threads) make it sound like anyone who cooperates with any form of LE is sheeple on ANYTHING that happens.

Just so we're clear, you guys are fine with warrantless searches as long as they're popular with the general public, right? I guess we don't even need a Constitution since we have instant opinion polls nowadays. I'm going to assume that you agree with Feinstein, Obama, and Biden when it comes to background checks and other "popular" gun control issues.

 

[mbills2223]

Wowzers. Sorry I'm late to the party!

 

[HenryWallace]

And it's no small wonder this once great country is in the shape it's in.

We have citizens ready to give up their rights to feel safe.

We have a government ready to take those rights to have a little more control over the citizenry.

We have a certain element of our law enforcement community ready to trample any and every right just "to solve a case". I mean who fricken cares how they get there as long as they get there right? I mean the Constitution is merely another piece of paper eh?

The list could go on and on and on and on and on and on ......

I think it's time to split the country in half. The half that wants bigger more intrusive government move to your side of the Mississippi and the rest can move to the other side. Maybe then everyone can live what they believe to be their own particular dream.

I believe that they called it the civil war, and I believe that now instead of African Americans being freed, I believe they look Hispanic...

 

[MikeDVB]

Wowzers. Sorry I'm late to the party!

You're not late, we've been here the whole time.

 

[churchmouse]

Was this not all covered in that other thread..............

 

[Bunnykid68]

I think those who truly want liberty can fit inside the state of Rhode Island.

But I don't want to go to the east coast