Highpower rifles for hunting in Indiana

[Hookeye]

1. High powered rifles are already used on game other than deer. What does your 80 year old grandfather think will be different with deer hunting?

2. How many times has your 80 year old grandfather's livestock or house been hit by .22lrs, shotgun pellets, pistol bullets or centerfire rifles now?

3. Centerfire rifles are far safer than shotguns according to studies on this subject.

4. Centerfire rifles are ALREADY used for deer under predation permits (remember, I pointed this out on INGO in a different subforum and made the OP who assumed that centerfire rifles were illegal or something all butthurt) without safety problems.

5. IDNR's magic bullet theory is nonsense and more and more people realize that it has no merit and no rational basis.

My aunt, when in her 40's had her house shot at least 3 times, deer hunters on the property next door. One slug hit the window frame edge and plowed a groove in the carpet to the kitchen area.

Yeah, I shoot a highpowered rifle all the time on non deer game, have for decades (chucks and yotes), using VARMINT BULLETS (highly frangible, minimal chance of carry past initial dirt contact, should on rare occassion I miss ).

IMHO the average person is an idiot. That means the average deer hunter is one too. Yeah, like wearing blaze orange and toting a .30-06 rifle changes everything.

Yeah, we have morons sending shotgun slugs skipping across fields at distant deer, and we have some that already do that with HP rifles (poachers). But........if John Q Dumbarse can go to Wallyworld legally and take his Barska equipped (see through rings dontcha know) Savage .30-06...........it's my guess there will be more accidents.

Remember, while many here are (or seem to be) of some safety/gun knowledge......we are not of the "average".

It's already a freakin zoo in some hunting areas, I think making it easier for the weekend warriors to shoot at things farther away will only make it worse.

Think the DNR is playing it too safe? Spend opening weekend of gun at Mississinewa Res.

 

[Hookeye]

That's not the law in Indiana. There is a doiamter minimum, that isn't the only criteria. A .45 ACP is also a pistol cartridge with a diameter greater than .243. A .270 is illegal for deer hunting in Indiana because it is not a pistol cartridge, even when fired from a pistol, and doesn't meet case criteria.

Inidana has very specific limitations or what can and can't be used from eitehr a rifle or a pistol, and the .270 does not quality. Or so the DNR tells me. I suggest you call and ask them, just as I did.

.270 Win is perfectly legal in handgun, if the handgun has a 4" or longer bbl. (because .270 is larger than .243 and the case is over 1.16". There is no max case length for cartridges used in handguns).
Whoever you talked to at the DNR is in error.

 

[Hillsideshooting]

Nice setup very interesting...

so is this considered a handgun? or a rifle with a pistol grip shooting a handgun cartridge?

what ever it is i like it......

Or buy a .35 rem and trim

 

[Hookeye]

It is a Thompson Center Contender, in regular rifle form.

It can be a rifle or handgun, the cartridge chambered doesn't matter.

I can slap a Pachmayr Gripper grip, and a 14" bbl in .35 Rem and it's a handgun.

Then I could pop the bbl off and put on a 16" or longer one, swap pistol grip to rifle buttstock and even if .35 rem cartridge (same as before in handgun config), it becomes a rifle.

Certain guns can be changed from one to the other without issue (I'll call them "non dedicated"). TC Contenders/Encores have been ruled as non dedicated by ATF, that was years ago (yet some folks still don't know the rules on them and think that how it was bought dictates what it must always be in configuration).

Changing a dedicated rifle to a handgun (like making a Rem 700 bolt action rifle into handgun) does require a SBR conversion and tax stamp (per NFA rules).

If I put a less than 16" bbl on my Contender and use a buttstock..........then it had better be a registered SBR, or I'm in violation. You can have all the parts, for rifle or handgun versions, but assembly must be in a process such that it never exists in SBR form during the transformation process

It might seem complicated but isn't.

 

[Hookeye]

The bbl looks a little shorter on mine I think because I'm running a G2 rifle forend, and not the usual G1 (which is shorter). When I open mine it doesn't fully angle due to contact of the forend with the trigger bow, but it still ejects fine. I could clearance it a little and get it to max opening.

Note: mine is not an "easy open" frame, is an old style (but second Gen) with forward pivot. Easy open frames have a visible pin in the middle of the frame - above trigger-where things pivot. TC Custom shop used to mod older fwd pivots to "easy open" for $55 yrs ago, but the Custom Shop is down, has been for a while, and nobody else offers that service. Dunno when I can send mine in for the upgrade.

I'm not sure if an easy open frame would drop the front of the trigger bow/assembly enough to limit opening angle (contact with G2 forend) to where ejection would be a problem.

It works with an old fwd pivot Contender, even though the packaging says "won't work on non G2 Contenders". If it didn't I was ready to break out the Dremel and make for clearance (not much needed if required). It's just plastic

 

[hammer24]

That's not the law in Indiana. There is a doiamter minimum, that isn't the only criteria. A .45 ACP is also a pistol cartridge with a diameter greater than .243. A .270 is illegal for deer hunting in Indiana because it is not a pistol cartridge, even when fired from a pistol, and doesn't meet case criteria.

Inidana has very specific limitations or what can and can't be used from eitehr a rifle or a pistol, and the .270 does not quality. Or so the DNR tells me. I suggest you call and ask them, just as I did.

DEAR GAWD!!! NOT AGAIN!!! The legal equip. section of the regulations is in black and white and very clear. Please get a copy and READ THEM!! Copied directly from the regs:

Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet
of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches (1.8 this year)
are legal to use only during the deer firearm
season. Some cartridges legal for deer
hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40
Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44
Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester,
.45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475
Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express,
and .500 S&W.
Handguns for deer hunting: Handguns,
other than muzzle loading, must have a
barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire
a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The
handgun cartridge case, without the bullet,
must be at least 1.16 inches long.

^^^^^So, if you have a pistol with a 4" barrel chambered in .243, 25-06. .270, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, .45/70 gov. it is LEGAL!!! This is not a new law people! It has been on the books for years.

 

[nkantzer]

High power rifles will someday be legal in Indiana, but it will have to go through its paces. I think the next part of the equation will be making the 30-30 legal just because its more of a brush gun and works just as well.

 

[hammer24]

Hookeye, Nice rig! Do yo have the 14" 35 rem barrel too? I would think the 16.25 and buttsock not only avoids the red tape, but is a better hunting platform in general.

 

[TheBigTim]

I saw this and thought it was interesting.

The "safe" slug myth: shotgun slugs are required in some areas, but why?

The article lays out the case that some of the new sabot slugs ricochet more than high power deer rifles. Not sure this is the answer but it is interesting none the less.

 

[Hookeye]

I had a 14" bbl in .35 Rem, complete Contender..........and was going to have it threaded and an extension added (silver soldered) to make it legal, but I sold that gun a while back. I was then looking at modifying something else (after job change and more play $), but then stumbled across this used 16.25" bbl at Downhams in Logan at a good price, so just went with this build (no job change, yet).

I hope to convert it to a .22 match bbl and ditch the .35 down the road.........when I convert a Ruger #1 to .35 Rem

Note: the 16.25" is a bit loud.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

DEAR GAWD!!! NOT AGAIN!!! The legal equip. section of the regulations is in black and white and very clear. Please get a copy and READ THEM!! Copied directly from the regs:

Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet
of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a
minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches (1.8 this year)
are legal to use only during the deer firearm
season. Some cartridges legal for deer
hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40
Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44
Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester,
.45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475
Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express,
and .500 S&W.
Handguns for deer hunting: Handguns,
other than muzzle loading, must have a
barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire
a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The
handgun cartridge case, without the bullet,
must be at least 1.16 inches long.

^^^^^So, if you have a pistol with a 4" barrel chambered in .243, 25-06. .270, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, .45/70 gov. it is LEGAL!!! This is not a new law people! It has been on the books for years.

THANK YOU! I was about to go look up the regs again but you got it.

 

[mm5de88]

I think you wil be able to use a high powered rifle in the next two years.They are opening it up to 450 Bushmaster now and the law states that you are to use pistol cartidges in a rifle and a 450 bushmaster is not a pistol cartidge.

 

[Mgderf]

DEAR GAWD!!! NOT AGAIN!!! The legal equip. section of the regulations is in black and white and very clear.

^^^^^So, if you have a pistol with a 4" barrel chambered in .243, 25-06. .270, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, .45/70 gov. it is LEGAL!!! This is not a new law people! It has been on the books for years.

I have taken a few deer with a Thompson Contender in .45/70 in a pistol configuration.

This year I plan to try out a Savage Stryker pistol in .308 Winchester.

 

[Willie]

I think you wil be able to use a high powered rifle in the next two years.They are opening it up to 450 Bushmaster now and the law states that you are to use pistol cartidges in a rifle and a 450 bushmaster is not a pistol cartidge.

No. The law does not say anything about "pistol cartridges in a rifle". It gives length and diameter. That is it...

 

[hammer24]

I think you wil be able to use a high powered rifle in the next two years.They are opening it up to 450 Bushmaster now and the law states that you are to use pistol cartidges in a rifle and a 450 bushmaster is not a pistol cartidge.

PLEASE< PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!!!! DEAR GAWWWD PLEEEEEEASE!!!!!!Read the post directly above yours!!!!!!! That is the law!!! WORD FOR WORD! STOP spreading these falsehoods about the law and READ!

 

[RealTree]

Drive on down to KY and use whatever gun you like...and the deer are bigger and tastier! Too bad it cost $190 each year to do it!

 

[hammer24]

I have taken a few deer with a Thompson Contender in .45/70 in a pistol configuration.
.

You sir, are more man than I! I feel tough with my full house .44 mag, or Knight .50 cal pistol with 70 gr. FFFG...no more .

 

[Matt52]

Pick yourself up a Marlin .357 lever rifle....all youll need.

357 will get the job done but my personal limit is 44 mag. I will say that a 357 would have to better than a 410 slug.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

There's absolutely no reason why "traditional" highpower rifles couldn't be used in Indiana.

I think that it had something to do with people getting shot in their homes while derilict hunters were out shooting at something they thought they saw while having a persons home as a bullet trap behind what they thought they saw. Other than granny goodness getting shot by her neighbor while eating her cheerios, I can't agree. I have seen what people consider safe bullet traps though and safe backdrop areas and I have seen the tacticool point loaded weapons at their mall ninja buddies and keeping a bullet from going a mile before it impacts anything is fine with me. I watched an idiot friend just shoot a slug at a phantom deer and I'm glad the slug slows down after a few hundred yards.

 

[netsecurity]

If you're shooting in the forest, range of the bullet shouldn't be a reason to worry, since a hill or tree will stop it soon enough. I think there is a big fear that rifle cartridges shoot for miles before stopping. While some do go very far, the 30-30, and even .223 will fall so quickly after 300 yards, that, unless being shot up unto the air, they will fall to the ground. Whereas a shotgun slug from a rifled barrel will maybe fall to the ground from a straight shot over a field after 200 yards. In my very rough guestimation here, there is about 100 yards difference.

Now, if some idiot shoots is .223 up over the top of a hill, it could go much farther, and into areas that he has no knowledge. But by the time it makes it back to earth, I suspect the tiny round would often be less than lethal.

I'm not advocating hunting with super high powered sniper rifles, within city limits, or even on private farms. But in state forest, it should be allowed IMO. It would rejuvenate the sport, I believe, and help grow a whole new generation of able hunters.