I Can not tell if I am more Angry or Hurt?

[cg21]

Confirmed ... my time was wasted on resonding to you ... that's the second time I made that mistake ... my first and last ... have a great equivalent life.

So you think that teachers should be paid more per hour to make up for them getting multiple vacations? Not trying to be argumentative obviously you’re a teacher and feel strongly. But I just cannot understand your side ? So a nurse and a teacher make the same amount of cash per hour. But a nurse works all year saving lives and such. A teacher works 3/4 of the year….. and you want them to make the same amount of money at the end of the year?

 

[Dean C.]

So you think that teachers should be paid more per hour to make up for them getting multiple vacations? Not trying to be argumentative obviously you’re a teacher and feel strongly. But I just cannot understand your side ? So a nurse and a teacher make the same amount of cash per hour. But a nurse works all year saving lives and such. A teacher works 3/4 of the year….. and you want them to make the same amount of money at the end of the year?

A teacher needs a college degree, that's $30k~ on the low end with a $300 a month student loan payment. At $40,000 a year just their student loan would eat up 1/8 of their take home every month. Then factor in cost of housing , food, transportation the math just does not really work. The schedule is what it is, teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably, not saying 100k+ a year , but 60k a year would not be unreasonable and would encourage higher talent teachers to stay in this state.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

So you think that teachers should be paid more per hour to make up for them getting multiple vacations? Not trying to be argumentative obviously you’re a teacher and feel strongly. But I just cannot understand your side ? So a nurse and a teacher make the same amount of cash per hour. But a nurse works all year saving lives and such. A teacher works 3/4 of the year….. and you want them to make the same amount of money at the end of the year?

First off, I am not a teacher, and I'm not advocating for more or less pay. I was trying to convey the point that an equivalent salary is a non-argument.

A person makes what a person makes and they must live on that amount. They don't live on an equivalent amount.

Presenting an "argument" that tries to rationalize that amount is a larger equivalent amount is just dabbling in fantasy.

 

[bobzilla]

A teacher needs a college degree, that's $30k~ on the low end with a $300 a month student loan payment. At $40,000 a year just their student loan would eat up 1/8 of their take home every month. Then factor in cost of housing , food, transportation the math just does not really work. The schedule is what it is, teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably, not saying 100k+ a year , but 60k a year would not be unreasonable and would encourage higher talent teachers to stay in this state.

You do realize that they get a guaranteed raise every year they work? That $38k (which is only at SOME dostrixts, others start higher) is year 1. Year two would be 40/41, year three 42/43 etc. name me any other profession with guaranteed vacations and guaranteed pay raises.

And I noticed y’all have ignored yet again the other perks afforded them that most professions do not have like state sponsored retirement and lower insurance costs.

 

[bobzilla]

Yet again another thread devolves into ATAB and every school district is the devil. Yay.

 

[Dean C.]

You do realize that they get a guaranteed raise every year they work? That $38k (which is only at SOME dostrixts, others start higher) is year 1. Year two would be 40/41, year three 42/43 etc. name me any other profession with guaranteed vacations and guaranteed pay raises.

And I noticed y’all have ignored yet again the other perks afforded them that most professions do not have like state sponsored retirement and lower insurance costs.

Lol if I don't get a raise every year I walk, State Sponsored Pension is a nice perk but does not exist outside the .gov sector. I also 100% have better and cheaper insurance than my Mother does (a 25 year teacher with a masters).

The perks are decent but again , the pay has to be enough that they can live off it. Apparently we can in fact say how much our kids educations are worth, it is painfully obvious who here actually values education and can understand the tertiary benefits they provide in the long run.

 

[wcd]

Just to throw this in the mix, a lot is dependent on geography with regards to hours, benefit, and salary.

My wife spends Sundays doing lesson plans, because prep periods are non existent, lunch is 15 minutes at best most days.

And Summers off you mean the 3 weeks off they have to do PD.

Teachers like many have long hours, thankless jobs and poor working conditions, welcome to Bidet economics.

 

[wcd]

Yet again another thread devolves into ATAB and every school district is the devil. Yay.

ATAB?
thanks

 

[ditcherman]

Typing this, I'm getting the feeling that I'm just wasting my time. Oh well, it is my down time so, I guess I'm entitled to do so.

This. You’re not gonna change their mind. Not sure if you’ve been involved in the other conversations over time but they all go the same way.

I was raised that teachers work 3/4 days and 3/4 of the year. If you know a teacher that does that they’re a slacker, exactly what many around here would call for to be fired.

Many of the benefits are way overstated by some around here, and they can’t get it through their head it’s regional.

I changed my mind when my wife became one. There’s maybe a 2 month “vacation”, if you want to call working 10-30 hours a week a vacation. She puts in way more hours than many with a regular “full time” job, especially through the school year, no doubt.

Back on track, it has to start at home, and it will start at home when there are responsible, aware parents. We can’t do anything about the irresponsible ones, and it’s way too late in many regards.
What we can try to do is get gun safety in the schools, and it will be a stopgap measure for those with parents who don’t do their job, and reinforcement for those whose parents have done their job, and it gets everyone more comfortable with firearms in general and opens up some conversations about the 2A so it’s a win-win-win.

 

[cg21]

First off, I am not a teacher, and I'm not advocating for more or less pay. I was trying to convey the point that an equivalent salary is a non-argument.

A person makes what a person makes and they must live on that amount. They don't live on an equivalent amount.

Presenting an "argument" that tries to rationalize that amount is a larger equivalent amount is just dabbling in fantasy.

No one is saying any type of fantasy …. It was simply said hour for hour teachers make what other people with similar college degrees make…. They just work less hours which results in a smaller annual income.



a lot of professions have to do prep work and follow up work at home….. my mom a school bus driver had to review tapes on her own time and take classes safety etc….. I was a construction supervisor I had to fill out daily progress reports and time sheets…. That was done at home since when I was at work I was getting the work done.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Confirmed ... my time was wasted on resonding to you ... that's the second time I made that mistake ... my first and last ... have a great equivalent life.

Can you explain why?

Or why a teacher that works 9 months is under paid compared to a RN or mechanical engineer that works 12? They work 3/4th the number of months and make about 3/4 the salary. Plus benefits such as retirement, and when I checked out contracts last year every district paid the "teacher" portion of their retirement fund along with the district portion.

Should a nurse who takes off 1/4 of the year by choice, make as much as a nurse that doesn't?

And I hope you have a great life as well.

Yet again another thread devolves into ATAB and every school district is the devil. Yay.

Where do you get that from?

Just to throw this in the mix, a lot is dependent on geography with regards to hours, benefit, and salary.

My wife spends Sundays doing lesson plans, because prep periods are non existent, lunch is 15 minutes at best most days.

And Summers off you mean the 3 weeks off they have to do PD.

Teachers like many have long hours, thankless jobs and poor working conditions, welcome to Bidet economics.

I'm sure it's very regionally dependent, around me teachers get one prep period every two days, but they have a "split" schedule. Students go to half their classes one day, the the other half the next. So their prep period is equal to two normal periods. They also get an extra hr once a week on Wends for prep or PD time, the kids go home an hour and a bit early. If they need to work during their prep they get paid additional for it. They get about 2 months and a week off during the summer, two weeks at Christmas, and a week each spring and fall. Plus several 4-5 day weekends. That seems to be the norm around here.

I can agree with your last sentence though.

 

[bwframe]

What was this thread about? Firearms safety or the teacher's union?

 

[dmarsh8]

As for the gun safety issue like many things in our new world, the only way it's going to get done is for the families and the private sector to do it. Through local ranges, churches,whatever. Befriend them, gain influence, convert (hearts & minds), train, and repeat. Create leaders. Iron sharpens iron. Apprenticeship-one of the great losses of America.
It comes one household at a time creating a reciprocating effect of good, of discipline, of morals and courage. That is our only hope for many issues facing this once great Republic..."IF YOU CAN KEEP IT"!

The argument about pay is so simple. If you don't believe your are getting paid what you're worth, go do something to make your income match your said worth. Prov. 18:16
Anyone in any profession or trade or business knew the costs (aka student loans, equipment) before they started as well as the earning potential of that endeavor. These should be considered investments for a defined goal in the future. If someone isn't smart enough to calculate that they are borrowing say $40k to get a job that only pays $30-40k, and doesn't factor in all the costs of living plus their loan debt on that income, I'm not so sure that the value they bring to the market is worth any more than $30-40k.
Now, if that person is fine with that lifestyle and doesn't think they should be treated as if they bring 100k worth of value to the market, then so be it. It's the people that act like they are being robbed and are always wanting more for doing less that are annoying,when they are the ones that signed on the dotted line for the deal.

Unfortunately we also have fools making people believe they should be able to go to these indoctrination camps called colleges for $40-200k and then expect the real producers (tax payers) to pay for the loans they signed up for.

 

[wcd]

What was this thread about? Firearms safety or the teacher's union?

Well I am sure if asked the teachers union would be vehemently opposed to any type of life skills education. Just saying.

 

[wcd]

Can you explain why?

Or why a teacher that works 9 months is under paid compared to a RN or mechanical engineer that works 12? They work 3/4th the number of months and make about 3/4 the salary. Plus benefits such as retirement, and when I checked out contracts last year every district paid the "teacher" portion of their retirement fund along with the district portion.

Should a nurse who takes off 1/4 of the year by choice, make as much as a nurse that doesn't?

And I hope you have a great life as well.

Where do you get that from?



I'm sure it's very regionally dependent, around me teachers get one prep period every two days, but they have a "split" schedule. Students go to half their classes one day, the the other half the next. So their prep period is equal to two normal periods. They also get an extra hr once a week on Wends for prep or PD time, the kids go home an hour and a bit early. If they need to work during their prep they get paid additional for it. They get about 2 months and a week off during the summer, two weeks at Christmas, and a week each spring and fall. Plus several 4-5 day weekends. That seems to be the norm around here.

I can agree with your last sentence though.

Sounds like they have a pretty good gig in your neck of the woods.

 

[Amishman44]

I believe that gun safety starts in the home and too many parents are either scared of firearms and so they never teach the kids because they don't have guns. If this happens many times the kid finds a gun either at another household or thrown onto the street. Myself I was raised around guns and was taught from an early age. This meant that my kids were also taught. While I would like to see the schools teach firearm safety I don't see it happening.

I concur with the OP that there needs to be a better degree of safety for firearms in the home!
We grew up on a farm and often took firearms out to shoot target, hunt, etc. and we knew they were dangerous and was careful with them. We also had firearms safety training in AG class.
Shucks, if our kid's school system developed a firearms safety training program for the schools, I would be willing to travel around to the different schools and teach it!
When our kids were little, they expressed curiosity in 'daddy's guns'...so we fed the curiosity!
Safely, of course, with a pre-learned set of rules which they had to follow to feel and hold a gun.
1. They had to ask...and it had to be with daddy present.
2. They had to demonstrate the primary (physically empty), secondary (look), and tertiary (feel, putting a finger in the chamber hole) checks to ensure the pistol was empty before handling.
3. Muzzle ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction.
4. Booger finger OFF the trigger.
5. Must be respectful and courteous at all times (and share) while handing a firearm.
When they started shooting, additional safety rules were taught and implemented and there was only one time when one of the kids had to 'sit out and watch' the remainder of the shooting time because of not following a safety rule at the range - warned once, out the second time (when it comes to firearms safety, we don't get to 3) and no one ever violated a rule again...with older sister verbally 're-enforcing the rules' before we even got to the range...he he!
Personally, if a gun is not on my person or in the act of being cleaned, it's in a safe.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

What was this thread about? Firearms safety or the teacher's union?

Yes?

Sounds like they have a pretty good gig in your neck of the woods.

That seems to be standard for IN. When the last school related bill was causing an uproar I did some checking. And every contract I checked was similar in those regards. Maybe not the extra hour and a bit on Wednesdays, but similar.

But back on topic, it should be taught at home. That said, how many here have seen people at the range who have no idea what they are doing? How many parents have absolutely no experience with firearms and don't want any? I wouldn't mind seeing at least basic safety taught in the schools, starting with Eddie Eagle or similar in Kindergarten or preschool.

 

[Amishman44]

You do realize that they get a guaranteed raise every year they work? That $38k (which is only at SOME dostrixts, others start higher) is year 1. Year two would be 40/41, year three 42/43 etc. name me any other profession with guaranteed vacations and guaranteed pay raises.
And I noticed y’all have ignored yet again the other perks afforded them that most professions do not have like state sponsored retirement and lower insurance costs.

Actually, having been a teacher, an annual pay raise is not guaranteed and, when I taught in Indianapolis Public Schools back in the late '90's, the Superintendent there implemented a program whereby teachers were going to be held accountable for student attendance (teachers would be required to know where an absent student was by the end of first period AND make every effort to get that student to school for that school day...and there was absolutely no way I was going to go out and pick up absent students and have them in my personal vehicle, ever) and any pay raise was going to be reflective of, or based on, student performance, which meant that a student could refuse to do his/her homework and it would have a direct effect on my pay.
And health-care benefits are voted on by the board for each school system...and the amount of money the system is willing to spend on health insurance is reflected in the budget with regards to other school programs that the budget has to cover.
Also, I didn't have a choice on how much the state 'required' from my employee salary to be put in the state required retirement program.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I concur with the OP that there needs to be a better degree of safety for firearms in the home!
We grew up on a farm and often took firearms out to shoot target, hunt, etc. and we knew they were dangerous and was careful with them. We also had firearms safety training in AG class.
Shucks, if our kid's school system developed a firearms safety training program for the schools, I would be willing to travel around to the different schools and teach it!
When our kids were little, they expressed curiosity in 'daddy's guns'...so we fed the curiosity!
Safely, of course, with a pre-learned set of rules which they had to follow to feel and hold a gun.
1. They had to ask...and it had to be with daddy present.
2. They had to demonstrate the primary (physically empty), secondary (look), and tertiary (feel, putting a finger in the chamber hole) checks to ensure the pistol was empty before handling.
3. Muzzle ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction.
4. Booger finger OFF the trigger.
5. Must be respectful and courteous at all times (and share) while handing a firearm.
When they started shooting, additional safety rules were taught and implemented and there was only one time when one of the kids had to 'sit out and watch' the remainder of the shooting time because of not following a safety rule at the range - warned once, out the second time (when it comes to firearms safety, we don't get to 3) and no one ever violated a rule again...with older sister verbally 're-enforcing the rules' before we even got to the range...he he!
Personally, if a gun is not on my person or in the act of being cleaned, it's in a safe.

Same.
And when I was a kid and dad didnt really shoot or talk to me about guns yet he had a cool looking goose gun with blonde furniture. Several times I would take it down and fondle it. One day I put some shells in it to see how it looked to load it. I was very careful, but of course with no experience it was very dangerous. And luckilly being a goose gun there was no way for me to be on the business end and reach the trigger.

He found out and immediately sat me down and showed me how they worked. He took me shooting. He also told me that anytime I wanted to see any of them, to talk to him and we'd check them out. From that point forward they were no longer a mystery and the unsafe, taboo attraction was gone. I never took it upon myself to touch it because I now knew it was dangerous.

I took that lesson to heart, to the deepest part of my soul. As an adult I now realize how important it is to remove the mystery. So from the earliest age I taught my two that they were off limits and always had a humorous version of the 4 5* rules posted including "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" which I couldnt say without them giggling. And it worked. They became blasé and anytime they wanted to see them, they would ask and I would always drop what I was doing to do so. Its never been a problem.

*Our first rule was "If you want to see one, just ask. The answer is (almost) always yes. "

 

[Amishman44]

Same.
And when I was a kid and dad didn't really shoot or talk to me about guns yet he had a cool looking goose gun with blonde furniture. Several times I would take it down and fondle it. One day I put some shells in it to see how it looked to load it. I was very careful, but of course with no experience it was very dangerous. And luckily being a goose gun there was no way for me to be on the business end and reach the trigger.

He found out and immediately sat me down and showed me how they worked. He took me shooting. He also told me that anytime I wanted to see any of them, to talk to him and we'd check them out. From that point forward they were no longer a mystery and the unsafe, taboo attraction was gone. I never took it upon myself to touch it because I now knew it was dangerous.

I took that lesson to heart, to the deepest part of my soul. As an adult I now realize how important it is to remove the mystery. So, from the earliest age I taught my two that they were off limits and always had a humorous version of the 4 5* rules posted including "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" which I couldn't say without them giggling. And it worked. They became blasé and anytime they wanted to see them, they would ask, and I would always drop what I was doing to do so. It's never been a problem.

*Our first rule was "If you want to see one, just ask. The answer is (almost) always yes. "

Exactly!!! Took the lesson to heart...couldn't have worded it better myself!
A lot of people don't understand that memories (experiences) are stored in one's emotions and, if a person has a positive (more enjoyable) experience, they tend to remember more of it and take-it-to-heart whereas if they have a negative (less than enjoyable) experience, they tend to associate their experience with the negative!
That's why one's experience or how they 'feel', interpret, or respond to an experience (especially women who are more emotionally based in life) really matters...
If it's positive, they retain more of it and retrieve it in a positive manner...
If it's negative, they tend to not retain as much of it and when they retrieve it, it's not positive so they don't tend to relive it or exercise it properly!