I thought this was extremely interesting...

[gregr]

Federal Ammunition has introduced a 29 grain .22 LR round designed for personal protection. Has this already been covered here? I think this is extremely interesting, and it`s really, really piqued my interest in a .22 pistol for carry perhaps...

Buy Personal Defense Punch Rimfire for USD 11.99 | Federal Ammunition

Shopping for the Personal Defense Punch Rimfire - Learn more about the latest Personal Defense Punch Rimfire and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.

www.federalpremium.com

 

[marvin02]

New Federal PUNCH .22LR Self Defense ammo.

Just saw this. Haven't even watched it yet.

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[Aszerigan]

Ammo companies could write "personal defense" on the side of a soda can and someone would buy it.

Marketing monsters doing what they do.

 

[Twangbanger]

Please keep in mind, the use of the term "Personal Defense" is a response to the market, not a suggestion of feasibility for a given use.

The ammo companies know people are going to try to use .22s and .380s for personal defense no matter what. So they're going to introduce a product for it, to make sure you're walking around with their ammo in your linty, inaccessible pocket.

That doesn't mean it's actually good for the purpose. It's just giving the people what they want.

 

[gregr]

Please keep in mind, the use of the term "Personal Defense" is a response to the market, not a suggestion of feasibility for a given use.

The ammo companies know people are going to try to use .22s and .380s for personal defense no matter what. So they're going to introduce a product for it, to make sure you're walking around with their ammo in your linty, inaccessible pocket.

That doesn't mean it's actually good for the purpose. It's just giving the people what they want.

Ok...I guess, but I don`t buy that. The testing has been done, and as many, even here have said, it`s more about shot placement than caliber. I believe the .22 has always been a viable round for self-defense, and I also believe this load makes that even more so. Many people have been killed with a .22. Israel's Mossad uses the .22 LR to commit many of their assassinations for example. I have no idea what bullet they shoot, but they tend to use the Beretta Model 70. I think the .22 LR is an entirely viable self-defense round.

 

[Twangbanger]

Ok...I guess, but I don`t buy that. The testing has been done, and as many, even here have said, it`s more about shot placement than caliber. I believe the .22 has always been a viable round for self-defense, and I also believe this load makes that even more so. Many people have been killed with a .22. Israel's Mossad uses the .22 LR to commit many of their assassinations for example. I have no idea what bullet they shoot, but they tend to use the Beretta Model 70. I say the .22 LR is an entirely viable self-defense round.

And I say people have been killed with airguns, so airguns are viable for defense. I sure don't want to be shot with one. Prove me wrong.

 

[gregr]

And I say people have been killed with airguns, so airguns are viable for defense. I sure don't want to be shot with one. Prove me wrong.

You`re certainly entitled to your opinion, and you`re also certainly not obligated to use the .22 LR as a carry round/gun. Mossad likes them, and that`s plenty good enough for me.

 

[Lpherr]

Ok...I guess, but I don`t buy that. The testing has been done, and as many, even here have said, it`s more about shot placement than caliber. I believe the .22 has always been a viable round for self-defense, and I also believe this load makes that even more so. Many people have been killed with a .22. Israel's Mossad uses the .22 LR to commit many of their assassinations for example. I have no idea what bullet they shoot, but they tend to use the Beretta Model 70. I think the .22 LR is an entirely viable self-defense round.

I've seen many video's of people carrying 9mm and .45ACP as defense ammo, and having to shoot an aggressor 3,4, and 5 times to stop the threat. How many .22 rounds do you suspect it will take to stop that same threat?

 

[Twangbanger]

I've seen many video's of people carrying 9mm and .45ACP as defense ammo, and having to shoot an aggressor 3,4, and 5 times to stop the threat. How many .22 rounds do you suspect it will take to stop that same threat?

What are you talking about, the Mossad only takes one shot?

 

[MCgrease08]

There's a big difference between an assassination on an unaware or sleeping victim, and using a pistol in self defense.

It's not just the ballistics of .22 lr that make it a less than ideal choice for self defense, it's also the inherent unreliability of the rimfire cartridge. A gun in .22 is better than no gun at all, but I personally wouldn't recommend it for anyone with the physical ability to handle the recoil of something larger.

An elderly person with weak hands and low dexterity? Sure. But a younger stronger more capable person? No.

 

[Twangbanger]

I've heard Putin uses Radioactive Cesium to take out people...do they make OC canisters with this in it?

 

[gregr]

There's a big difference between an assassination on an unaware or sleeping victim, and using a pistol in self defense.

It's not just the ballistics of .22 lr that make it a less than ideal choice for self defense, it's also the inherent unreliability of the rimfire cartridge. A gun in .22 is better than no gun at all, but I personally wouldn't recommend it for anyone with the physical ability to handle the recoil of something larger.

An elderly person with weak hands and low dexterity? Sure. But a younger stronger more capable person? No.

Israeli Mossad .22 LRS: The Reliable Pistols of the Mossad

An enemy of Israel believes that he has successfully slipped away from the Mossad after his heinous act of terrorism.

www.tactical-life.com

From the piece:

"During the incident that took place in February of 1969, Israeli Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim engaged several heavily armed Arab terrorists as they attacked an EL Al airliner on a snow covered runway in Zurich. Despite the odds against him, the young Israeli sky marshal expertly used his issued Beretta Model 70 pistol to kill one of the Palestinian terrorists, moments before the Zurich Police arrived and took the remaining terrorists into custody. The three surviving male Palestinian terrorists received 12-year jail sentences for attacking a commercial airliner with machine guns and explosives that resulted in the killing and wounding of several passengers and crew. Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim became an instant hero at home in Israel."

 

[Ingomike]

New Federal PUNCH .22LR Self Defense ammo.

Just saw this. Haven't even watched it yet.

www.indianagunowners.com

Too funny, scooped by a post from last year…

 

[printcraft]

I've seen many video's of people carrying 9mm and .45ACP as defense ammo, and having to shoot an aggressor 3,4, and 5 times to stop the threat. How many .22 rounds do you suspect it will take to stop that same threat?

The bench mark is 13 rounds in the ear canal.

 

[Twangbanger]

Israeli Mossad .22 LRS: The Reliable Pistols of the Mossad

An enemy of Israel believes that he has successfully slipped away from the Mossad after his heinous act of terrorism.

www.tactical-life.com

From the piece:

"During the incident that took place in February of 1969, Israeli Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim engaged several heavily armed Arab terrorists as they attacked an EL Al airliner on a snow covered runway in Zurich. Despite the odds against him, the young Israeli sky marshal expertly used his issued Beretta Model 70 pistol to kill one of the Palestinian terrorists, moments before the Zurich Police arrived and took the remaining terrorists into custody. The three surviving male Palestinian terrorists received 12-year jail sentences for attacking a commercial airliner with machine guns and explosives that resulted in the killing and wounding of several passengers and crew. Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim became an instant hero at home in Israel."

It's settled then....my daily EDC setup will consist of .22LR, OC canister, and the Zurich Police.

 

[Leo]

Ok...I guess, but I don`t buy that. The testing has been done, and as many, even here have said, it`s more about shot placement than caliber. I believe the .22 has always been a viable round for self-defense, and I also believe this load makes that even more so. Many people have been killed with a .22. Israel's Mossad uses the .22 LR to commit many of their assassinations for example. I have no idea what bullet they shoot, but they tend to use the Beretta Model 70. I think the .22 LR is an entirely viable self-defense round.

You bring up good points.. And most of real life outcomes seem to have had way more variables than anyone ever thought. I am sure a .22 in the brain stem from behind will do a guy in. A lesser wound in a non critical area may not, at least not quickly.

I can claim no first had experience but something I have read is that a light firearm may eventually kill someone, but in the mean time he is able to continue his assault on you. It makes sense to me that the goal is to drop the bad guys blood pressure fast enough that he faints, goes into shock, or at least his vision blurs so that his ability to fight goes away.

That said, if I do not have access to a .30 caliber rifle, or a large caliber handgun, I will certainly use an available .22 rimfire to the best of my ability.

A Marine gunny taught us that "defense is the 4th letter of the alphabet, so a defensive pistol needs to start with a four". Not sure if it is true, but it is catchy.

 

[Bugzilla]

Winchester came out with one also. The Federal was designed to penetrate. The Winchester was designed to fragment. I bought some of each, but haven’t fired any yet. Figure I’ll alternate when I load the 22’s.

Age Verification - NRA

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Cameramonkey]

And I say people have been killed with airguns, so airguns are viable for defense. I sure don't want to be shot with one. Prove me wrong.

What are you talking about, the Mossad only takes one shot?

Which ties this thread into the 223 for deer thread. Can it be done? Absolutely. Can the average hunter who isnt a skilled marksman drop the deer reliably? No. That is why the standard for both of these discussions is higher; to allow greater room for error.


Its not all about the bullet. As already said its proficiency, shot placement, etc.

 

[MCgrease08]

Israeli Mossad .22 LRS: The Reliable Pistols of the Mossad

An enemy of Israel believes that he has successfully slipped away from the Mossad after his heinous act of terrorism.

www.tactical-life.com

From the piece:

"During the incident that took place in February of 1969, Israeli Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim engaged several heavily armed Arab terrorists as they attacked an EL Al airliner on a snow covered runway in Zurich. Despite the odds against him, the young Israeli sky marshal expertly used his issued Beretta Model 70 pistol to kill one of the Palestinian terrorists, moments before the Zurich Police arrived and took the remaining terrorists into custody. The three surviving male Palestinian terrorists received 12-year jail sentences for attacking a commercial airliner with machine guns and explosives that resulted in the killing and wounding of several passengers and crew. Sky Marshal Mordechai Rachamim became an instant hero at home in Israel."

I'm sure you could find a story of a guy that killed an attacker with a pencil too, but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for self-defense.

The Masai bushmen hunt and kill lions with spears. That doesn't mean my lilly white butt needs to be out there doing it.

 

[Lpherr]

I'm sure you could find a story of a guy that killed an attacker with a pencil too, but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for self-defense.

The Masai bushman hunt and kill lions with spears. That doesn't mean my lilly white butt needs to be out there doing it.

John Wick!